Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

[HaydnW92]

Hello everyone, and greetings from the UK.

I was going to post about this in the 'introduce yourself' area but I suspected it might catch the attention of a few more people if posted in here instead (moderators - please feel free to move it if you wish).

I recently purchased a 1994 Alfa 164 Q4, in Proteo Red, UK registration L273 ORS, as a new project. The car had obviously been off the road for some time, and as such it cannot be driven at the moment. The ignition barrel is also apparently seized. The pictures on the auction listing showed it had been stored in a garage/barn. The auction (eBay) was a bit bizarre - the car was listed three times. The 1st time it was removed for no apparent reason before any bids were even placed. The second time, it was listed as a 'regular' 3.0 24V - it sold, but the winning bidder must not have paid as the car was then relisted again...this time as a 3.0 24V 4wd (Q4).

The auction listing had sketchy information to say the least - no mention of mileage, or history,etc - but the auction was no-reserve so I was definitely interested. The seller was able to confirm the car was a Q4, but aside from that seemed to know very little about it. The car has no rear badges. A few hours before the auction was due to end I decided to enter the car's registration into Google, purely out of interest. This showed me the following link with some extremely interesting information;
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-164 ... shaft.html

So apparently the car I was bidding on was actually a 3.5 Savali Q4. The car's colour and registration matched the car I was bidding on, as did many of the details such as the fact that the car was 'imported from Holland sometime in 2004' (the UK registration service says it was first registered here in 2005, and there were some original manuals/bits of paper in the car that were in Dutch, plus a receipt for some air-con work (I think) at Sam Van Lingen).

My Dad and I collected the car on Friday the 30/01/15 and took it home on a recovery truck...a 6 hour round trip! On the way back I went through all the paperwork that came with the car, to try and see what information I could find. The car came with very little service history, no V5 (UK registration document), no keys, and no other paperwork. There was lots of junk in it too, such as old CDs and stuff. When I got home I began searching for more info:

- I retrieved the original engine number from Fiat Eper via the car's chassis number and compared it to the engine currently in the 164 - the numbers match.
- I contacted Sam Van Lingen - they have no records of the car's chassis number, but said this doesn't mean it isn't one of theirs. I was told it could have 'escaped their records'.
- I tried to contact the person who posted the above forum thread on alfaowner.com - so far I have no response
- I had a good look round the car for any other clues - the engine has no special markings, and there's no other paperwork to be found.

There was some good news though - I connected up a battery and the car's electrical systems seem to be working just fine. I checked the condition of the belts and connected up and old ignition switch to see if the engine would turn over - which it did, so I removed the fuel pump and injector fuses and all the spark plugs, and performed a compression test: The readings (in PSI) were 212, 220, 198, 217, 220, 227 (1 - 6) which I was pretty pleased with. I also checked the odometer - 123556 kms, or 77K miles! The LCD climate control display also works perfectly and the interior is in mint condition. The tan leather seats are really nice, but I have some LHD Recaros (by coincidence) that will probably be fitted instead.

Anyway - long story short, I would be extremely grateful if anyone can provide even a tiny piece of information about this 164, and I figured this is probably the best place to ask. To again summarise the car's key details:
- 1994 Q4, Proteo Red
- UK registration: L273 ORS. Original registration: JD-NP-34
- Imported from Holland in 2004
- No badges on the rear, a strange rear spoiler that is a bit narrower than the bootlid
- Tan leather interior

Thanks for reading, and I apologise for making this such a long post!

Kind regards,
Haydn (164 12V QV, 164 Q4, 145 Boxer)

[164 TD]

Welcome aboard Haydn!

Interesting car you got there; I know one 3.5Q4 closeby; proteo rosso as well.

Once they did an engineoverhaul on the 3.5 and I was able to make some pictures. The 3.5 marking there was engraved on the same flat as the enginenumber; perhaps you can take a closer look there.

As far as I can remember the man who did all the "engine upgrades" at Sam van Lingen was Serge Schorsch who now works for himself.

[HaydnW92]

Thanks for the kind welcome!

That's some excellent information, thank you. I had looked there before so I could make a note of the car's engine number, and I also wondered if there would be any special markings there, though I couldn't see any.

However, I just went outside and moved some other pipes/obstacles out of the way to get a much clearer view of the whole area, and look what I found...





Haydn

[164 TD]

Congrats!!!

It could be that this car once was owned by a british carjouralist who lived in France at the time. I remember him talking about having the car bought in Holland.

[HaydnW92]

Thanks

Interesting information there too - like I say, all I have is the car itself so any information at all is useful to me! I'm glad I posted here - I've visited the site many times for helpful tips when working on my other 164, and doubtless you'll be seeing more posts from me in the future as I work on the Q4.

It's good to finally have confirmation of what this engine is too - I was searching high and low for information. Even though there was lots of evidence to suggest it was indeed a 3.5, I still had my doubts due to the lack of history with the car, and it all seemed a bit too good to be true really. So it's a relief to finally know for sure. That said, I would have been very pleased with my purchase regardless of whether or not it was a 3.5 - it seems like a really nice car that just needs some TLC.

I'll post a few pictures of the car below if anyone is interested.

Haydn

[164 TD]

What a barnfind!

What did you pay for it if I may ask?

[HaydnW92]

Indeed, I'm really pleased with it - underneath all the dirt, it seems to be a very solid and well looked after car.

I paid just over £1000 for the car.

[164 TD]

a bargain!

[fasani]

Hello Haydn,

First welcome to our forum, this and our dutch version are the most visit sites.

Great story and a lot of research you already did.

I'm the owner of the dutch 164 database, i have collected in 4 years over 2500 licence plates ( in Holland a licence plate is part of the car and easy to find non privacy related information)

Please send me by PM the VIN, i can check it with my database if i have it and perhaps provide some more information.

And the price....really a bargain....

Hendrik

[HaydnW92]

Hello Hendrik,

Thanks for the warm welcome. I tried to find out as much as I could about the car before pestering people on here..unfortunately I didn't find much! But so far this site has once again proven its worth.

I would very much appreciate it if you would check the VIN for me - I'll send you it now.

And yes the price really is difficult to believe - I guess it helps that the 164 is a very uncommon car here in the UK, and as such they draw less attention than other models might. I've received plenty of confused-looking stares and glances in my 12V QV - most people have no idea what it is!

Haydn

[Alfan]

Welcome - what a great catch

I saw the advert for the car and was also wondering if it was a Q4 or not, the pictures did not give a direct clue. It seems that it has been stored well, even though the pictures didn't present the car very well. I am sure the Q4 will work great with the extra power!

[HaydnW92]

Thank you

Yeah the advert didn't give much away really did it, not helped by the fact the car has no badges on the rear. The first 2 times it was listed failed to mention it was a Q4, and none of the listings mentioned the fact it has a 3.5 (though up until today I wasn't sure of that either). So I took a chance, and so far it seems to have paid off

I agree about the storage - it looks to have been stored indoors, so underneath the dirt is a nice car which is a bonus. The car still has its share of scrapes and scratches though, and the front and rear bumpers need respraying. When I find the time I'll give it a proper polish just to see how it cleans up.

The previous owner who posted in the alfaowner.com link mentioned that the car was a bit of a brute, and could outrun his Ferrari 400GT (seems plausible) though the RWD sometimes had an off-day - that could make things interesting! I guess I'll found out for myself when I get it back on the road.

Haydn

[alfa east]

Welcome Haydn, terrific story! Don't worry about long postings; since we're all nuts about the 164 here we'll read it with interest. You now own a rare 4WD 164 with an even rarer 3.5 L engine conversion. Red Alfa with tan leather; you can't go wrong with that either. Not so sure about that boot spoiler though; kind of spoils it and -although I do not know that for a fact- I can not imagine that being a SaVaLi - option. Congrats and again, welcome to the site.

[HaydnW92]

Thanks

I got a little carried away with my first post - I didn't realise how much I had written until I read it back! I still can't quite believe I've got my hands on such a rare car. I'm very much looking forward to getting it back on the road, and my other 164 now has a friend
I do really like the interior, so I have a bit of a dilemma - keep it original with the tan, or fit the factory-optional Recaro seats...a tough choice to make. I've never seen a boot spoiler like this one either, I first assumed it was a Savali item but now i'm not so sure. It has an integrated brake light and looks to be sealed onto the boot lid, so I may just leave it as it is (at least for now).

Regardless - I'm glad there's still people out there who appreciate 164s as much as I do. They seem to be under-appreciated here in the UK. So thanks again all for the warm welcome

[fasani]

Haydn,

Great buy you made, i didn't have any extra information about the car in my database.
Way deep in the back of my mind i remember something about a Q4 that went to England, it was from an dutch Italian and this sounds very familiar to me, i do have to digg in my brains to gather that information.

Hendrik

[HaydnW92]

Hi Hendrik,

That's fine, thank you for looking anyway! I'll always have interest for any information that you, or anybody else, has for me.

As a small update, on Sunday I cleaned and polished a few of the car's panels (though it was far too cold to do the whole car!) and though it took a lot of work to remove some of the dirt left on the paint, I'm really impressed with the finish - it is cleaning up really nicely It's the first time I've had a proper look at the Proteo Rosso paintwork, and I must say - it's a lovely colour, especially in the sunlight. If I get the chance to finish the car I'll try to upload some pictures if anyone is interested.

Haydn

[164 TD]

Yes please, pictures!

I do know there was a yellow Q4 in the netherlands who had a licenceplate differing only one number from yours; unfortunately no picture of it!

[Alfan]

It's the first time I've had a proper look at the Proteo Rosso paintwork, and I must say - it's a lovely colour, especially in the sunlight.

I fully agree

Looking forward to some great photos!

[164 TD]

Not really relavant, but the "twinbrother" of your Q4 was a Q4 as well.

Licenseplate JD-NP-33 while yours was JD-NP-34 when it was dutch registered.

A yellow Q4 who is already scrapped.

[HaydnW92]

Well I can see there's some interest so depending on the weather I might give the Q4 a proper clean this weekend...and pictures will follow!

Wow...I've never seen a yellow 164 before. Is that an original Alfa colour?
It's certainly very bright! Shame to hear it was scrapped though

[alfa east]

Wow...I've never seen a yellow 164 before. Is that an original Alfa colour?

No, apparently that was the first thing the original owner of that (then) brand-new car did, before he had even driven the car. Paint it yellow. One of the few colors that do not work on a 164 in my opinion.

[AlfaWhiz]

From the pics it looks just horrible... But to be fair I have to say I'd love to see it in person, maybe photos don't do it justice. Too bad it's already gone. But hey, we're all happy you managed to save one, Haydn. May it serve you well, so you can enjoy it for many years to come.

[HaydnW92]

Oh I see - fair enough! I didn't want to be the first to say it but I'm not a fan of the paint either It just doesn't suit the 164. Still, it is (was) unique I suppose.

And thanks - I'm sure it will be a great car when I get it back on the road. Incidentally it will be the 2nd 164 I have rescued, my 12V Cloverleaf being the first! I think I have a bit of a soft spot for them...

[Porto]

Hi Haydn,

Nice find!

A 3.0L is nice, a 3.5L is better!
That low milage it has and for that price you paid --> WINNER!

Get yourself a nice set of original Q4 rims and you'll have yourself a hell of a car!

[Alfamuppet]

Great find Haydn

I saw this one and was watching for parts as the description was unclear.

I have a standard 3.0 Q4 that I bought last year. Would be great to see your next write up in the AROC mag!

If you are interested to check the 4x4 system I have the correct tester and module to check and reset the viscomatic.

I've also had a number of issues which I have worked through, generally where the car was not used, although kept in a dry warm garage.

Give us a shout if you need some help

Cheers

Daryl