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Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:52 pm

Porto wrote:Hi Haydn,

Nice find!

A 3.0L is nice, a 3.5L is better! :lol:
That low milage it has and for that price you paid --> WINNER! :D

Get yourself a nice set of original Q4 rims and you'll have yourself a hell of a car!

Thanks! I can't wait to begin using it.
And yes, it is possibly the best purchase I have made so far (touch wood!). It seems to be in a really nice condition, but is not without its faults.
As for the wheels, I'm torn between either a set of the original Speedlines like the ones in your picture (very nice) or perhaps some 17" Zender Milanos (very similar to the Speedlines but slightly larger diameter). Neither of these are very easy to find though. I'm a bit picky about wheels, but there's no rush so I'll consider my options. I do have a set of 15" 'salami-slicer' wheels as fitted to early QV's that I could put on it but I don't think it would look right. Plenty of time to decide anyway :)
Alfamuppet wrote:Great find Haydn

I saw this one and was watching for parts as the description was unclear.

I have a standard 3.0 Q4 that I bought last year. Would be great to see your next write up in the AROC mag!

If you are interested to check the 4x4 system I have the correct tester and module to check and reset the viscomatic.

I've also had a number of issues which I have worked through, generally where the car was not used, although kept in a dry warm garage.

Give us a shout if you need some help

Cheers

Daryl

Hi Daryl,

The description was certainly unclear! Though after unearthing the modifications to the car I figured I had nothing to lose so I swallowed a brave pill and went for it - it's looking good so far, though I've yet to have a poke around underneath so I'll keep my fingers crossed for now.

It's good to know there's at least a few Q4's still in use in the UK - aside from my own I don't think I've ever seen another in the flesh which is a shame. I know of 2 Proteo Rosso cars - including mine - and a black one (off the top of my head). Who knows, maybe I'll see yours at a show one day or vice versa 8)
My next AROC article will undoubtedly focus on the Q4, so it's good to know at least one person will find it interesting :)

Thanks for the offer re: the tester - I'll keep you in mind for future reference, should I encounter any issues with the Viscomatic system. Hopefully I'll be able to tackle the rest of the car without too many issues!

Haydn
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:09 pm

I do indeed, in fact I believe that's the other P-R Q4 I mentioned.
It looks quite a lot nicer than mine does at the moment, which gives me something to work towards :D
There was also a black one for sale at the end of December/beginning of January - that looked nice too.
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Alfamuppet » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:21 pm

Sorry I seem to be having issues with posting photos but you saw them before I deleted the post

Since owning, I have spent a fair bit on her and she was £3500 to purchase - have removed the Cats and put on a stainless as it worked out cheaper than an OEM system - they are tested as a non cat vehicle, so no need to keep them!

I put new Lambda's on recently due to both failed and rough running. Ichanged the cam belt soon after purchase last year, which requires a little care as you need the correct tools with wieghts to set the tension and the position of the wieght depends on chassis number!!!

New Pirelli PZeros all round

I replaced the crank sensor and am shortly to replace the aircon pump which failed at the weekend almost setting the car on fire!!!

To do- replace the sensor pick up for the steering angle sensor and replace the oil cooler pipes.replace all fluids including on the 4x4 system

All this on a well cared for car with 110k miles

It's a good job we love Alfa's for there personality :D

Will be at Duxford all being well, maybe catch you there
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Alfamuppet » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:29 pm

Porto wrote:Hi Haydn,

Nice find!

A 3.0L is nice, a 3.5L is better! :lol:
That low milage it has and for that price you paid --> WINNER! :D

Get yourself a nice set of original Q4 rims and you'll have yourself a hell of a car!

Image


Hi Porto

Where would I find such wheels in good condition?

Cheers
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:40 pm

Ah that explains where your post went! But yes I saw them - it looks very nice :)

I've heard these cars can cost a fair amount in upkeep, more so than other 164s, so I'll be keeping an eye on my expenditure!
That's a very interesting piece of information re: the cats - I've been wondering what to do with my exhaust but as of yet I don't know if it still has the original exhaust and/or what kind of condition it's in. But I'll certainly bear that in mind.

A cambelt change is top of my list - I'm sad enough that I've already researched all the parts I'll need, including part numbers, prices and where to get them from, as well as all the special tools :mrgreen: but I'll do as much research as possible before I attempt a belt change as I've been told it's a fair bit more difficult than on the 12V cars (which is a doddle in my opinion). The 'position of the weight depending on chassis number' definitely sounds like an Alfa trick.

You really have spent some money haven't you - It's clear the car was sold to a fellow Alfa nut! Though your list is making me slightly worried about my impending expenditure :lol: but we love these cars regardless.

Duxford may be a bit far for me if I'm honest, but I'll hopefully catch you somewhere else at some point.

Haydn
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Alfamuppet » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:56 pm

Well Haydn

Best of luck with her, keep in touch and let me know which shows you intend to go this year, and I'll let you know if I intend to go

A great find as I said before, and not looking so bad after some cleaning!!

Cheers Daryl
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Porto » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:00 pm

Alfamuppet wrote:
Porto wrote:Hi Haydn,

Nice find!

A 3.0L is nice, a 3.5L is better! :lol:
That low milage it has and for that price you paid --> WINNER! :D

Get yourself a nice set of original Q4 rims and you'll have yourself a hell of a car!

Image


Hi Porto

Where would I find such wheels in good condition?

Cheers


Hi Alfamuppet,

This is one of four rims which I have resprayed and were also repolished.
They were in this kind of condition when I got them:

Image


ATM I don't know anyone who sells Q4 rims, but keep checking the market section on this forum and the Dutch one, sometimes someone offers a set of them.

http://www.alfa164register.nl/viewforum.php?f=10
AR GT 3.2l V6 24v Sport Coupé 'Distinctive', maart 2005, nero (current Bella)
AR 164 3.0l V6 24v Q4, jan 1996, proteo rosso (current Bella)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, july 1996, silver (sold)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, nov 1995, dark blue (scrapped)
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Alfamuppet » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:11 pm

Many thanks Porto

I will keep my eyes open.

By the way the A/C screen is still working perfectly thanks
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Porto » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:39 pm

Alfamuppet wrote:Many thanks Porto

I will keep my eyes open.

By the way the A/C screen is still working perfectly thanks


That's good to hear! :D

I hope my repairs will last longer than original! :mrgreen:
AR GT 3.2l V6 24v Sport Coupé 'Distinctive', maart 2005, nero (current Bella)
AR 164 3.0l V6 24v Q4, jan 1996, proteo rosso (current Bella)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, july 1996, silver (sold)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, nov 1995, dark blue (scrapped)
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Alfan » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:48 pm

HaydnW92 wrote:My next AROC article will undoubtedly focus on the Q4, so it's good to know at least one person will find it interesting :)

I am sure that article would be of interest to this site as well :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 85.000km
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby alfa east » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:59 am

Yes, please! (that is, if you are allowed to "re-print" it here after a period of time)
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Alfan » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 am

alfa east wrote:Yes, please! (that is, if you are allowed to "re-print" it here after a period of time)


I am guessing here, but I would think the author has the copyright :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 85.000km
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby ALFAHEIDA » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:26 pm

Hi Haydn,

What a story!! Hope you enjoy her.
Keep up the good work.

Regards,

Erwin
Alfa 164 QV(Q) 24V '93 /Alfa 164 QV(S) 12V 3.5 Project '91 /Alfa 164 3.0 12V Automatic '89
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:49 am

Hi all,

I figured I should try and keep this thread updated every now and then, regardless of how much actual progress I'm making, just as a means of sharing my progress with you. This site is excellent, there's so much enthusiasm and knowledge for 164s! I apologise in advance but the following post is a bit long...read at your leisure!

Since I last posted I've done a few small jobs on the car, nothing too major. I managed to buy a new-old-stock remote receiver/fob to suit the infra-red system the car uses. I then found an excellent guide online that stated how the fob could be programmed into the car's receiver. This only took about 5 minutes and I now have a fob that works with the car's alarm and central locking system, which is good! However I'm still having problems - the fob only activates the alarm and central locking one-at-once?? Ie On the first press it will activate the alarm, and on the second press it will disarm the alarm but lock the doors, then on the third press it unlocks the doors but arms the alarm again again!! Does anyone have any ideas? I replaced the batteries in the fob as soon as I got it, and when I programmed it into the car's IR receiver I believe the battery was connected and the alarm was in the 'on' postition (the keyhole in the box on the right side of the boot). I've tried it with the alarm disarmed too as the siren kept going off, due to the alarm and central locking working opposite to one another, but it made no difference. I hope that makes sense to somebody, but electronics aren't my strong point so I need some guidance here :? ?

I had a bit more of a general look around the car with a friend of mine who's an electrician. Underneath the bonnet there's just wiring spaghetti everywhere, and I asked my friend about a non-original looking electrical box that was wedged next to the air filter housing. At first we assumed it was part of the alarm system, but it was too large for this and looked like an ECU, after a bit of investigation based upon locations of wires and whatnot he stated it had to be a standalone ECU for the engine management. If that's true it seems a bit odd that it's just wedged into place in the engine bay, but it also points towards the car's potential 8)

I also managed to get some keys cut to suit the car's locks, as you may remember I mentioned the car came with no keys. I found a place that could cut keys to fit the car based upon the car's original key code - which is one of the few things I actually have for the car - for a very good price. It all seemed a bit too good to be true, but I did some research and it all seemed legit, and the company destroys all information relevant to the car once the order is complete (for obvious security reasons) so I placed an order. A couple of weeks later two keys arrived, and I can happily report they both work perfectly in the doors, ignition and alarm box in the boot (but not the boot lock as that was smashed in with a screwdriver by the fellas I bought the car off :roll: ). Though they didn't use original Alfa key blanks they do have little cloverleaf symbols on them which is a nice touch :D
Image
I've also started to order various parts I need to carry out a full service on the car including all belts and tensioners, plus tools such as cam blocks and timing equipment to make sure I do everything 100% correct. It's quite a bit more complex than my 12V QV! While I'm waiting for everything to arrive I decided to try and fit my LHD Recaro seats, which I imported from Germany a little while back. Firstly however I had to repair the plastic surround on the driver's seat which had cracked, and also replace some switches that were missing. As luck would have it a single Tan leather 164 Recaro seat appeared on ebay, which happened to have everything I need including an intact plastic switch panel, so I bought it for spares (£10.50!). Replacing the broken panel and missing switches was fairly straightforward if a little time-consuming, but my Recaros are now almost perfect :mrgreen: I think the driver's seat still needs some adjustment though as I'm not sure it's sitting perfectly level. (sorry for poor quality pictures)
Image
Image
Image

Although I don't mind the badge-less look I personally prefer cars to have the correct badges. I did think about going for '164 3.5 Q4' but decided to leave it as intended.
Image

And here it is at the moment! (still waiting for a full polish and wax)
Image

That's all for now...I want to have the car on the road this year but time will tell, I'm rather busy with studying for my degree/part time work/looking after my other Alfas etc etc, but fingers crossed.
Haydn
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Porto » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:03 pm

HaydnW92 wrote:Although I don't mind the badge-less look I personally prefer cars to have the correct badges. I did think about going for '164 3.5 Q4' but decided to leave it as intended.
[img]
Haydn


Or you stick the '3.5' on the other side of the hood, like I did with an '24v' emblem.
Much more subtle is an original 'Savali' emblem. :)

Image

Sorry, can't help you with the key/alarm fob, I use an aftermarket set off Ebay myself which is working very good; has also an extra key for the trunk to open! :)

Though, history has learned that the original Alarmsystem and the Alfa 164 are not a very good couple! :lol:
AR GT 3.2l V6 24v Sport Coupé 'Distinctive', maart 2005, nero (current Bella)
AR 164 3.0l V6 24v Q4, jan 1996, proteo rosso (current Bella)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, july 1996, silver (sold)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, nov 1995, dark blue (scrapped)
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:11 pm

I tried to find a Savali emblem, either to go on the back of the car or to go on the engine somewhere as I'll soon be repainting the cam covers and plenum. But I can't find one anywhere (not a surprise really) they must be extremely rare. I agree about the alarm - I've read about lots of issues with alarms on 24V cars...I could just leave the siren disabled but I'm not sure how I feel about that :)

I love the 4 exhaust system you have too - it's definitely food for thought, it looks great 8)
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby 164 TD » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:33 pm

What do you mean with the emblem? I've never seen more that just the letters in different fonts.

Image
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:58 pm

That's the sort of thing I mean - just some kind of Savali badge or something. I like what they did with the cam covers on their 12V conversions (as per your picture) but I don't think they did this for the 24V cars. I may be wrong.

I've seen a couple of variants in designs too, like this one:
http://forum.alfaclub.eu/viewtopic.php?t=67589

Or perhaps this one:
http://forum.alfaclub.eu/viewtopic.php?t=70517

That said, I doubt many alfisti in the UK would know what it meant anyway - Savali is rather unheard of over here.
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby alfa east » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:17 pm

HaydnW92 wrote:That said, I doubt many alfisti in the UK would know what it meant anyway - Savali is rather unheard of over here.

Maybe that's part of the charm! But another font to add ? It's already quite inconsistent when it comes to fonts on the boot lid. On the block might be more appropriate.
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby gerry foster » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:28 pm

Hello Hadyn.
I think the boot spoiler improves the styling of the 164 .
When owning a Red 24v V6 Auto I put on a full width spoiler.
It drew many admiring comments and turned many heads.
Hope you keep yours.

Gerry.
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:16 pm

alfa east wrote:
HaydnW92 wrote:That said, I doubt many alfisti in the UK would know what it meant anyway - Savali is rather unheard of over here.

Maybe that's part of the charm! But another font to add ? It's already quite inconsistent when it comes to fonts on the boot lid. On the block might be more appropriate.

Yeah I think it does add to the charm :D I know what you mean about the font though, and I do like the back of the car as it is with the correct badges (well, I'll be removing the towbar at some point) but I'd definitely like to have some kind of Savali emblem or logo on the engine itself. I like little details like that - such as the 12V cam cover pictured above. But I may have trouble finding one!
gerry foster wrote:Hello Hadyn.
I think the boot spoiler improves the styling of the 164 .
When owning a Red 24v V6 Auto I put on a full width spoiler.
It drew many admiring comments and turned many heads.
Hope you keep yours.

Gerry.
Black 1992 !64 Twin spark

Hi Gerry,
Thanks for the comments - I intend to keep a spoiler on the car as I too prefer the spoilered-164s, especially the QVs/Q4s as I feel it completes the sportier look with the deeper bumpers and skirts. The third brake light is a nice touch too. The only thing I don't like is the width - it is a few inches narrower than the bootlid so it looks a little strange at some angles. Maybe I'll change it for an original item or perhaps a Zender one!

Haydn
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Porto » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:45 pm

HaydnW92 wrote:I love the 4 exhaust system you have too - it's definitely food for thought, it looks great 8)


I had to sacrifice one of the original back mufflers to make space for the piping; the Q4 has two lookalike back mufflers which are hold together with an 180 degrees curved pipe and some welding points. I had to remove the one with the two exhaust outlets. There will be more noise (24v growl!) involved so you will sacrifice some of the original Busso 24v sound also.

You could however remove that original muffler and install another one, for instance the one that comes with the normal 24v. With some added piping and some welding you can make the exhaust quite custom! :)
AR GT 3.2l V6 24v Sport Coupé 'Distinctive', maart 2005, nero (current Bella)
AR 164 3.0l V6 24v Q4, jan 1996, proteo rosso (current Bella)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, july 1996, silver (sold)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, nov 1995, dark blue (scrapped)
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:19 pm

Ah I figured that's what you had done - as far as i recall the system passes through one silencer, then turns 180 degrees and passes through another doesn't it, before finishing with the twin tailpipes. I've only briefly seen underneath my Q4 so I'm not sure what condition the exhaust is in, but a stainless system is definitely on my to-do list mainly for the longevity. I would like to experiment with a 4 outlet exhaust though, I really like yours!

What I'd be most interested in doing, in terms of the exhaust, is working out some kind of equal-length front pipes, as they really bring out the V6 'growl' - much like the noise the GTV6 and 75 V6 make. Not sure how easy it would be however. I don't want the car to end up being too loud either. For now I'll focus on getting the car up and running, I can think about stuff like this when the car is back on the road :)
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Alfamuppet » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:55 pm

Haydn

Sounds like you are making good progress. I need to take a leaf out of your book and get in the garage and fit my Aircon pump before show time begins in Ernest!!

Cheers Daryl
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Porto » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:01 pm

Here are some pictures of the underside of my Q4:

Image

Image

Image

As you can see, the other silencer was cut off just where it was attached on the elbow pipe.
It is secured with a normal exhaust clamp and not welded because of maintenance reasons.
I get condensation smoke through both tailpipes simultaneously so the flow is correctly divided.

The sound is more present, it's not very hard, a more present V6 rumble and there is a nice growl in it. Fortunately not the sound of those wannabees with their cheap sports exhaust which more sounds like an broken exhaust but a more brown and deeper sound, more fire, more growl. From 4000tpm and up the lion really gets angry and the party really begins! :)

Sound when riding is nearly identical to this Brera, but a bit more darker.
Sound when stationary is identical though, a nice and heavy V6 rumble is present; a sharper sound when revving though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En8UTmv2kME

I took this next movie a while ago and the sound is a bit muffled but in real it sounds alot better, but you'll get the idea.
Anyway, removing one silencer is a world of difference, I'd say! :)
Sorry, no revving. :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZpWciIHAhc
AR GT 3.2l V6 24v Sport Coupé 'Distinctive', maart 2005, nero (current Bella)
AR 164 3.0l V6 24v Q4, jan 1996, proteo rosso (current Bella)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, july 1996, silver (sold)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, nov 1995, dark blue (scrapped)
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