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Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:58 am

Hi everyone,

Progress has been really slow over the last 2 months as I've been busy with other things, but I've managed to do little jobs here and there so I figured it's time for another update. I apologise if it's a bit long!

First things first - I owe a special thanks to Hendrik (Fasani) for sending me an original Savali badge that he found. He is a true gent! All I need to do now is have it restored. So thanks again Hendrik!

Image

I've been looking into the problems with the clutch recently. To recap, the clutch would engage most of the time but the bite point is very low and the pedal does not return all the way. Firstly I replaced the slave cylinder as the old one looked a bit tired and the flexible seal was perished. While doing this I removed the clutch damper (the disc-shaped object) and planned to fit the pipe straight from the hard line to the slave, but this pipe had a slight split in the rubber. It wasn't leaking but I replaced this too for peace of mind. I then spent some time bleeding the clutch but the problems remain! If I bleed it the pedal becomes quite firm and the clutch feels ok, even though the pedal still sticks a little bit. At this point there are no more bubbles coming out of the slave. However if I bleed the clutch again after 5/10 minutes there are suddenly a lot of bubbles and the clutch pedal has gone soft again. It's obvious there's a leak somewhere - but I can't see any fluid? There's no sign of leaks around the slave cylinder, inside the footwell or under the car... I think I'll replace the master cylinder next as I've heard they can break internally, if that doesn't fix the problem I don't know what will!

I've also been chasing down some possible causes of the car's running problems. I got hold of some wiring diagrams and spent some time checking over the connectors and switches in the engine bay. I found that the connector for the 'idle air valve actuator' had been very poorly repaired...the plastic casing had cracked and somebody had sealed it up again with some sort of silicone sealant? Two of the pins were corroded and one was covered in sealant :roll: so I cleaned that up and it should have a proper connection again now. I also had the car running a few weeks earlier and I disconnected the air temperature sensor from the large intake hose - it made no difference to how the car was running, which I thought was a bit odd?

There's also some slightly bad news...I think the timing may have slipped a tooth or two, most likely on the rear exhaust cam :( After I had replaced the clutch items, cleaned up some connectors and taped up the slightly split large intake hose I started it up, expecting it to run a bit better. But the car now sounds really rough :? it still starts and idles ok but it doesn't sound right and there seems to be more vibration than before. The tapping sound from the rear head is also suddenly louder. Needless to say I haven't run it since and within the next week or so I'll take the cam covers off to check the timing. I ordered a new belt as a precaution and I noticed something odd - the teeth on the new belt are round, whereas the teeth on the belt that's currently fitted are more 'squared-off' but still fits the pulleys OK. The new belt looks like it will fit the pulleys better though, and the current belt is correctly tensioned so I'm wondering if indeed the belt has slipped, this could be what caused it? I ordered it from a specialist with the correct part number, so perhaps my new one just has a more updated/better design?

Alfan wrote:That is the same info, as in my manual, which is for 1994, so I believe this is correct. Why the 3A does not work in your car is a good question, but if the 10A works, I think that should be ok, but of course worth monitoring.

I don't recall if you have cats and lambda probes installed, due to the different engine. I haven't tried removing the fuse in mine to see what happens.


Hi Alfan, sorry for the late reply. I've been monitoring the 10A fuse and so far it's fine, the wires feeding into the fuse holder don't quite match the Q4 diagrams I have found so I guess something else has been patched into/onto this fuse - possibly part of the LPG system? Electronics aren't my strong point though.

It looks like I have twin cats and twin lambdas, which I believe is how the car would have left the factory. I think I'll change the lambdas at some point just to eliminate any problems there. When I've got the car back on the road I'll probably look into removing the cats too, as the rules for imports of a certain age here in the UK mean I don't legally have to have them fitted. :)

I think that's all for now...below is a pic I took after giving it a quick polish last month. It's not the best picture, but the car cleans up quite well.

Image

...I've also started having a go at refurbishing my Zender Milanos....I can post pictures of those too if anyone wants to see? It's taking forever though :lol: I promise I'll try to make these updates a bit shorter in future!

Haydn
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby alfa east » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:41 am

Love wheel refurbishment photos; bring'em on!

"Gates" is the belt supplier of choice for the 24v; I can't remember what teeth they have but that is the right choice. Always! I guess it makes no difference that you have the SaVaLi version. Check the other important parts as well. An old list, now outdated as a lot is not available anymore, can be found on the US website; http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168 ... post792213
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:26 pm

Here are some of the wheel photos. It's the first time I've had a go at refurbishing wheels and I thought I'd go for a polished metal look - similar to the way Zender did them when new, but shinier 8)
My current process is to remove the decorative bolts, strip the wheels with lots and lots of paint stripper (the lacquer is very resilient in places) and then wet sand them in stages, starting at 400 grit up to 3000. As you can imagine, it takes a long time!
I plan to replace the wheel bolts with stainless ones...I might tap the holes so the bolts can be removed in future.

So this is how they looked when they arrived:
Image

Stripping the paint with the bolts removed (you can see how the dirt gets in where the head of each bolt sits):
Image

Lacquer removed and ready for sanding:
Image

After sanding with the coarser grades:
Image

After sanding and polishing (excuse the black polishing residue - I still have more polishing to do!):

Image

The polished wheel next to one that still has some lacquer and paint to remove:
Image

The finish isn't quite perfect, but I'm happy with it for a first attempt. I just to have do the over three now :roll:

As for the belt, the one currently fitted to the car came as part of a Dayco kit which included (from memory) the cambelt and two idlers, using the correct part numbers for the 164 24V. I've used Dayco timing equipment before, in fact late last year I fitted their cambelts and tensioners to my 145 boxer (two of each) and I've never had any problems. The belt fits just fine on the Q4, but the replacement Gates belt I've bought looks like it will fit the pulleys ever so slightly better. Perhaps it was just a mistake, or an outdated design? I'll check the timing and replace the belt regardless. I really don't want any engine problems with this car!!!

Thanks for the link - I used that list to help me buy the rest of the parts I needed so everything else should be fine. The AlfaBB is a great source of information. In fact, I've been using it recently to sort out the rough idle my 12V QV has.

Haydn
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby alfa east » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:43 pm

Dayco made by Gates I think.

Great labor of love those wheels!
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:30 am

Oh really? I didn't know that.
Still, fitting the Gates belt will give me a bit more peace of mind.

As for the wheels, I have no idea when they'll be finished...stripping, sanding and polishing the first wheel must have taken me around 30 hours... I might have to speed up my technique! I still need to sort the bolts out too. It really is a labour of love :D

Oh, I forgot to mention: As of Sunday last week, the Q4 is now safely jacked up so I've been able to have my first look at the underside. Thankfully the floor looks solid. There's a slight build up of oil on the underside of the Viscomatic unit, the exhaust looks a bit rusty and the right-rear jacking point is bent inwards slightly, which will need welding. So I had to be careful jacking it up there. One or two of the exhaust hangers have perished too, but that's easily sorted. Other than that, it seems to be in good condition underneath. :)

Haydn
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Alfan » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:38 pm

Hard work on the wheels and with great results, I think :)

I can't recall if you have had the diagnostics sw from this site connected to your car, but that should give you information about the state of the lambda probes, among other things.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:59 pm

Thanks Alfan - I'll be glad when they're all finished!

I've had the diagnostics from this site running on the car, and it didn't pick up any readings from the lambda sensors from what I can recall, though it was picking up several other measurements/parameters. It gave me some fault codes too, some of which made sense, but others didn't - such as 'Final power drivers'. I have no idea what that means...it sounds like something from a sci-fi film. :lol:

When I've sorted the timing out I'll run the car with the SW attached, and see what comes up again.
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby alfa east » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:10 am

HaydnW92 wrote: 'Final power drivers'. I have no idea what that means...it sounds like something from a sci-fi film.

Throttle (sensor)?
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:35 am

I thought that too, but the software also gives a separate error code for 'Throttle Potentiometer' which must be the throttle position switch (specifically, it states a short circuit). So I guess final power drivers must be something else?
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Alfan » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:39 am

I have had that error on my car, mainly after having the battery disconnected for some days. Then it would run rough, I read the codes, got this error, cleared it and it ran fine.

That doesn't explain what it is, only the possible symptoms. If someone knows about it, that would be good info to have.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby alfa east » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:27 am

HaydnW92 wrote:I thought that too, but the software also gives a separate error code for 'Throttle Potentiometer' which must be the throttle position switch (specifically, it states a short circuit). So I guess final power drivers must be something else?

Yes, indeed. By the way, as I have mentioned earlier, if the sensor and potentiometer turn out to be fine it is most likely a short circuit/leak in the cable tree. It happens from time to time with my car after heavy rain but disappears after drying it out in the sun for several hours. No long-term solution of course but worth a try (weather permitting, or alternatively, put it in a spray booth cabin for a couple of hours).
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:22 pm

Thanks for the suggestion alfa east, I'll check the wiring tree at some point. I've already had to repair a few other sections of wiring around the engine bay, so this seems plausible to me.
Meanwhile I swapped the TPS from my dad's 24V QV into my Q4, as his QV runs just fine, however this made no difference to my Q4 at all. I know it's hardly a scientific approach, but at least it suggests the switch itself is fine.

I had some free time this morning so I removed the cam covers and spark plugs, turned the engine to TDC and checked the timing marks on the cams...unfortunately I was right about the cambelt slipping, and guess which cam slipped.... :roll:

Image

The rear exhaust cam:
Image

The other three cams were still perfectly timed. I don't think there's any damage as it still ran ok, but obviously a bit rougher than before. But I'll do a compression check anyway. I'll fit the replacement belt too as a precaution.
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:12 pm

Tested the compression today, the results vary slightly but given the car hasn't had a proper run for over seven years I don't think it indicates any problems. I imagine it would even out a bit when the car is back in use. The compression for all 6 cylinders is as follows (1 - 6):
263, 233, 232, 250, 270, 240.

This was a dry test, afterwards I thought about putting a drop of oil into the bores and re-testing them but then the dark clouds started gathering above me, so I had to leave it at that.

Like I say, some slight variance, but aside from that I think they're OK?
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:14 pm

I took the timing belt off today and compared it to the one I'll be replacing it with. Here's a picture so you can see the slight difference in the shape of the teeth. Current belt is on the left, and the new belt is on the right - the new one is more 'rounded' and as such should fit the pulleys ever so slightly better.

Image
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby alfa east » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:17 am

Yes, this has been discussed earlier on other websites, e.g.: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168 ... tyles.html

I noticed that acording to Jason on alfabb the Dayco belt (dimpled) is also OK (and probably not a Gates product) as I suggested earlier in this thread :oops: .
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby AlfaWhiz » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:29 pm

I believe there was a TSB regarding the timing belt tooth style change, the one on the right of your photo being the more recent one.

Found it: http://www.digest.net/alfa/FAQ/164/b019701.htm
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:01 am

Well there you go - mystery solved! Thanks for your help and advice chaps.

The new belt is now fitted with the timing and tension set perfectly so hopefully this will signal the end of any timing-related problems. Once I've put the cam covers, plenum, etc back on I'll see how she runs and perhaps upload a video of the engine running, if anyone is interested.

I need some new intake runners too...I'm removing an old LPG system from the car (for several reasons) and each of the Q4's runners has a hole drilled into it for the LPG injection. I thought about patching the holes but that isn't the best solution. I've researched intake runner sizes and it seems like a 3.5 engine would likely benefit from going larger than 45mm (44mm internally?) but I don't know where I would get a set from... High Power Racing do a set with 46mm diameter and made from carbon fibre, however;
a) I want to keep the look of the chromed pipes - they're one of the car's best features!
b) my understanding is that 48mm would be more optimal, as 46mm gives a very small gain for the price
c) the price for a set of 6 from HPR is eye-watering :lol:

I don't mind fitting another set of the standard 45mm runners, but I thought if I have to replace my current runners I may as well try to upgrade. Obviously the plate between the head and the runner would need to be bored out slightly too. It would be interesting to do a before-and-after test on a rolling road to see what the difference would be. I read a dutch magazine article about a Savali 3.5 164 Super that claimed some of these cars came with 50mm runners...mine certainly doesn't, and I think that would be too big anyway. Regardless, I need to get the car back on the road first - I'm just 'planning ahead' :D

Thoughts and opinions are welcome, as always.
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Alfan » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:27 pm

I can't comment on the benefit of the size of the runners and don't know about 48mm, but I think that the plenum might be a limiting factor. Also, if the inner surface is not smooth, you can easily create vortexes, which are definitely not good for flow. If you find more info on this, it would be interesting to hear about it.

And great that the timing is back in place :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby fasani » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:44 am

Haydn,

what kind of paint stripper did you used to remove the old. i had some paint remover but due to the environment they made a more friendly version, that one isn't working so good as the old one.
Still looking for a piant remover.
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:45 pm

Alfan wrote:I can't comment on the benefit of the size of the runners and don't know about 48mm, but I think that the plenum might be a limiting factor. Also, if the inner surface is not smooth, you can easily create vortexes, which are definitely not good for flow. If you find more info on this, it would be interesting to hear about it.

And great that the timing is back in place :)


You may be right Alfan - there is a company that makes a larger plenum for V6 Alfas in carbon fibre, which supposedly provides a slight boost to a stock engine (and would logically provide a bigger boost to a modified engine) but it's expensive, and I prefer the look of the standard Alfa plenum. I'll probably leave the plenum and runners standard, I was just wondering :D

Yep - hopefully it stays that way this time!
fasani wrote:Haydn,

what kind of paint stripper did you used to remove the old. i had some paint remover but due to the environment they made a more friendly version, that one isn't working so good as the old one.
Still looking for a piant remover.


Hi Hendrik,

I used a stripper called 'Nitro Mors' which is well known in the UK and readily available. Hopefully you'll be able to find some as it's good stuff.

I found the best technique was to apply it to the wheel with a brush leaving a nice thick coat. Leave it for 30 mins or so, then apply another coat, brushing it into the first coat. Then after another 30 mins, apply a third coat and leave it for a while. After I did this, the old lacquer/paint peeled off the Milanos with little difficulty.

I hope that helps.

Haydn
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:44 pm

Hi folks,

Apologies for the lack of updates over the last few months - i've just been really busy with other things, plus the weather is only just beginning to improve here in wet and cold England...

Anyway, the Q4 project is still very much going ahead. I've hardly touched the car since the last update (though I spent a few hours re-checking the timing and re-assembling the cam covers and intake assembly earlier this week) but I've been reading about other people's Q4s on this site and it's making me very jealous! I've promised myself that I MUST get the car on the road this summer. It's infuriating to look outside and see it sitting there unused and untouched. I also don't want people to read through all of this thread, only to find the updates have stopped with no conclusion!

I can almost promise that updates will be posted on a weekly basis during the Summer, as I've arranged a break from all my Uni stuff for a few months so I (should!) have plenty of time to fix the Q4. Expect lots of pictures, and requests for advice :D

In the meantime I've been thinking about my other Alfas, and I've decided that my 164 Cloverleaf and 145 will probably be sold this year, depending on the Q4's progress. I'm cutting back, particularly as a couple of weeks ago I bought another car that will be a future project ( :mrgreen: ) and I arguably don't really need two cars, never mind four! I've also been selling lots of other spares such as one 4x98 set and one 5x98 set of Zender Milano wheels. I was sad to see those go...but I didn't really need them, and they went to enthusiasts so all is good. I still have the set that I intend to put on the Q4. Below is a picture of my Cloverleaf's engine bay - over the last few months I've replace the fuel pipes, injectors, intake runner seals, the fuel filter, and various other bits. Unfortunately I can't seem to get it to run properly at the moment - hardly any fuel is reaching the engine, though I think I know what the cause is.
Image

If anyone is interested here's a picture of the car I've recently bought. It is of course Italian :wink: and when I saw it I just had to have it, I like these cars and it was exactly the spec I would want. That said, to tell the truth I'm a bit worried about what I've taken on as I've read plenty of horror stories about rust and dodgy electrics, but I'm sure it will be fine - what's the worst that could happen! It will remain safely tucked away for at least a few months while I sort out the Alfas.

Image
Haydn
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:16 pm

I have also changed the name of the thread to better reflect the contents.

Haydn
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
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Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby Alfan » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:15 am

HaydnW92 wrote:Unfortunately I can't seem to get it to run properly at the moment - hardly any fuel is reaching the engine, though I think I know what the cause is.

To be continued? This is a 164 forum :wink:

HaydnW92 wrote:If anyone is interested here's a picture of the car I've recently bought. It is of course Italian :wink: and when I saw it I just had to have it, I like these cars and it was exactly the spec I would want. That said, to tell the truth I'm a bit worried about what I've taken on as I've read plenty of horror stories about rust and dodgy electrics, but I'm sure it will be fine - what's the worst that could happen! It will remain safely tucked away for at least a few months while I sort out the Alfas.

Interested? Of course :mrgreen: (I would also like a Maserati in the stable...)
Which model and year is it and what is the state of it?
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby alfa east » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:41 pm

Good to read that there are at least 2 more people on this forum who have a soft spot for the Biturbo/Ghibli. This one has been blinding me for a few weeks already:
http://www.one2car.com/for-sale/maserat ... 4/2581153/
But at the moment I can't really afford another (unreliable?) Italian on my driveway, so in the meantime, I'll follow your thread(s)!
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alfa east
3.0 V6 24V automatic
 
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:26 am
Location: Bangkok
Country: Thailand (th)

Re: Does anyone have information about my (Savali?) Q4...

Postby HaydnW92 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:55 pm

Alfan wrote:To be continued? This is a 164 forum :wink:

Fair point! Well I spent the majority of today outside, splitting my time between the 164s. I started off with the Cloverleaf, and fixed what I thought was the problem... the plastic fuel pipes on either side of the fuel filter had been bent slightly and had become 'crimped' thus restricting the flow of the fuel. I probably did this by accident, as I recently replaced the fuel filter.

So I gently forced them back into shape and put some small jubilee clips around each crimped area in the hope that it would stop them from bending back again and hold the pipe open. I then tried to start the car...still no fuel reaching the engine. If I connect an external 12V supply directly to the fuel pump it seems to work OK, and fuel squirts out of the pipe that supplies the fuel rail on the left side of the engine bay (which I have detached from the rail for this exercise). It's a steady stream, but I think it should be a bit higher pressure? Anyway, I tested the fuel pump connector on the wiring loom and with the ignition switched on it records roughly 10.6 volts, so the pump should be receiving power from the car - but with the fuel pump connector plugged into the pump and the ignition switched on it's completely silent. Not even a drop comes out of the pipe supplying the fuel rail. I'm almost certain the car doesn't have an immobiliser, and the fuel pump relay seems to be OK, as does the fuse in the cabin fusebox. The car started and drove without these problems before I took it off the road for some maintenance, so I'm at a loss? Does it have a fuel cut-off switch that I may have accidentally nudged? Have I missed something really obvious? Am I going crazy? All three are distinct possibilities!

As for the 164 Q4: Today I finished putting the intake assembly back together and carefully re-connected all wires and whatnot. I was hoping to have the car running again this afternoon...unfortunately this was not the case. While checking everything over before attempting to start the engine I noticed that coolant was leaking out from the thermostat housing. I checked the three thermostat bolts and sure enough a couple of them were slightly loose. While gently tightening them (I promise I was being gentle!) I heard a 'tick' noise and all of a sudden coolant is leaking out much faster than before. It turns out a section of the thermostat assembly had just snapped off :x I wasn't very impressed to say the least. I know they can be fragile so I barely applied any muscle to the bolts, so I guess the housing must have had a hairline crack in it, which could have been the source of the leak, which then broke completely. Either that or I don't know my own strength...

Anyway, it looks like the section that broke can be removed and replaced - it's the part that runs from the thermostat, through the gap between the cylinder heads, and then connects to a couple of rubber hoses just below the throttle potentiometer. At least, I hope it can...time to try and find one! I may as well replace the thermostat, the sensors, the two small rubber hoses and all the gaskets at the same time. I don't seem to be having much luck with the 164s at the moment :roll: here's a picture of the broken area so you can see what I'm referring to:
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And a shot of the engine itself, because why not? :)
Image

As for the Maserati, alfa east is quite correct - it's a 1992 222 (Biturbo) 4V. I have a real soft spot for quirky Italian cars 8) Cosmetically it's very nice having been resprayed several years ago, though there are one or two small blisters here and there. Mechanically it needs some love, which is why I bought it. The interior is lovely, a mix of cream leather, grey suede and burl wood panels. It appears solid underneath and as far as I can tell the only thing(s) missing are the spare wheel underneath the rear of the car and the dashboard clock (which are a little bit expensive) but other than that it's all there. I'm very much looking forward to working on it, however I know I've got to sort the Alfas out first and sell a couple of cars. If I'm totally honest though, at the moment I'm more excited to get the Q4 roadworthy and see what it's like to drive.

That Ghibli is very nice too, it looks immaculate. My research suggests that the only things that let these cars down are rust issues and some dodgy electrics - I'd imagine the Ghibli suffers less in these respects, given it's a younger evolution of the Biturbo. The engines are supposed to be bulletproof provided they're serviced on time, and I've been told by several of my car-enthusiast friends that these cars have fantastic acceleration. I can't wait to find out.
1999 Alfa GTV 3.0 V6 24V
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)

(Ex)1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
(Ex) 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 8V
HaydnW92
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Country: United Kingdom (uk)

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