Q4 4WD warning light on instrument cluster

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Cavallino
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Q4 4WD warning light on instrument cluster

Post by Cavallino » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:03 am

See photo:
The 4WD warning light is on the instrument cluster of my Q4. The AWD seems to be functioning while driving and even up on a lift with the car in gear all 4 wheels turn freely.
Any ideas on what this could be? I don’t have any diagnostic computer tools, unfortunately.
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Last edited by Cavallino on Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

finalfa
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Re: Q4 awd warning light on instrument cluster. HELP

Post by finalfa » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:43 am

If you would put the car on a lift with NON-functioning AWD the rear wheels will still turn if drive is on. The question is that does the Viscous coupling engage or not.
If you don't feel comfortable with electronic diagnostic tools, now is a great time to learn! :wink:
When you turn the key in the ignition, all lights should light up. Does the AWD light remain lit after the self check? Or does it light up after a couple of minutes of driving? This is a question which can reduce the possible faults significantly.
There seems to be a couple of faults which will trigger the AWD light, but will leave the AWD functioning. First thing to check is the fluid in the power steering reservoir. Is there enough fluid, and the correct fluid?
Did something unusual happen when the AWD light lit up the first time, or what happened?
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 -83
Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 -02
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.7 -96
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.0 -94

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Alfan
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Re: Q4 awd warning light on instrument cluster. HELP

Post by Alfan » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:14 pm

If you don't have the marelli module for testing, it becomes more difficult.

The 4WD system is connect to many things in the Q4, e.g. ABS & suspension information. As for the fuel tank, you should also be able to find documentation on the 4WD system on this homepage. It is good to read through it, to get a better understanding of the system, as it is very complicated.

Of course, I also recommend searching other threads here, as the 4WD system has been discussed quite a lot over the years :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 185kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 95kkm

Cavallino
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Re: Q4 awd warning light on instrument cluster. HELP

Post by Cavallino » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:32 pm

finalfa wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:43 am
If you would put the car on a lift with NON-functioning AWD the rear wheels will still turn if drive is on. The question is that does the Viscous coupling engage or not.
If you don't feel comfortable with electronic diagnostic tools, now is a great time to learn! :wink:
When you turn the key in the ignition, all lights should light up. Does the AWD light remain lit after the self check? Or does it light up after a couple of minutes of driving? This is a question which can reduce the possible faults significantly.
There seems to be a couple of faults which will trigger the AWD light, but will leave the AWD functioning. First thing to check is the fluid in the power steering reservoir. Is there enough fluid, and the correct fluid?
Did something unusual happen when the AWD light lit up the first time, or what happened?
yes, all lights do light up when starting the car, then the AWD light in the photo I posted remains on. I purchased the car with this problem unfortunately, so I don't know when or how it initially occurred.
Last edited by Cavallino on Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

finalfa
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Re: Q4 awd warning light on instrument cluster. HELP

Post by finalfa » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:59 am

mm... If the light never goes out after self check, that reduces the possible faults significantly.
Can be worth it to check in Alfabb.com / alfaowner.com, if anyone has a tester to loan/rent to you. The tester makes life just much more easy.
What you need is the Magneti Marelli tester, MA12-A module and ADT101A multiplexer cable. After that you're set.
Because the light never goes out after self check, it sounds either like a loose connection to any of the sensors, or low fluid level, or something in that matter.
Always a good practice to start by checking the fluid and fluid level, and then clean all electrical connections. Doesn't take much time, and is worth while doing even if it doesn't solve your problem. Also, remember to check the condition of the hydraulic pipes for the Viscomatic. There's in total 4. Speaking of own experience, you will have to examine them VERY closely. Also, check for any leakages under the car.
Doesn't sound like it would be a hydraulic problem, but still a good thing to check now and then. If there would be a hydraulic problem, the light would go out and light up after a couple of minutes of driving; at least in my experience.
If you have a multimeter/voltmeter, and basic knowledge of electrics, you can do extremely much diagnostics with the AWD system in these cars.
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 -83
Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 -02
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.7 -96
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.0 -94

finalfa
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Re: Q4 awd warning light on instrument cluster. HELP

Post by finalfa » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:09 am

*pin1 (12V supply)
*pin2 (safety relay permit 12V)
*pin3 (steering angle sensor) Should give between 0V and 5V. 2,5V when steering is straight.
*pin4 K-Line
*pin5 L-Line
*pin6 (Oil level check)
*pin7 ABS
*pin8 ABS
*pin9 ABS
*pin10 reverse signal
*pin11 (flow regulation valve)
*pin12 Engine rpm
*pin13 (look pin2)
*pin14 (12V supply from ignition key)
*pin15 (Throttle sensor)
*pin16 (piston postition sensor)
*pin17 (5V supply to sensors)
*pin18 (hydraulic pressure signal
*pin19 (warning light)
*pin20 (Earth point)
*pin21 (ABS)
*pin22 (Brake pedal released)
*pin23 (Brake pedal pressed)
*pin24 (accumulator recharge command)
*pin25 (earth point)

Here you have all the electrical connections in the Viscomatic ECU, which is located in the center console, on the passenger side. If you have any questions about measuring these, I can help you. The AWD system on these cars are a little bit problematic when something goes wrong, but it is surprisingly fun doing diagnostics, and the feeling when you've solved it is unbeatable. I'm sure the problem is solvable. :D
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 -83
Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 -02
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.7 -96
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.0 -94

Cavallino
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Re: Q4 awd warning light on instrument cluster. HELP

Post by Cavallino » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:08 pm

finalfa wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:09 am

Here you have all the electrical connections in the Viscomatic ECU, which is located in the center console, on the passenger side. If you have any questions about measuring these, I can help you. The AWD system on these cars are a little bit problematic when something goes wrong, but it is surprisingly fun doing diagnostics, and the feeling when you've solved it is unbeatable. I'm sure the problem is solvable. :D
So I don't need the Fiat-Lancia Morelli tester and MA12-A module if I use this method?
How do I measure each pin?

Cavallino
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Re: Q4 awd warning light on instrument cluster. HELP

Post by Cavallino » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:03 am

finalfa wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:59 am
Can be worth it to check in Alfabb.com / alfaowner.com, if anyone has a tester to loan/rent to you. The tester makes life just much more easy.
What you need is the Magneti Marelli tester, MA12-A module and ADT101A multiplexer cable. After that you're set.
My Alfa tech has the original North American tester that came with 5 modules, but there's a gentleman in NY local to me who has figured out a way to "burn" all of the modules onto blank eproms, and he can do so with the MA12-A module, in English, and is also willing to lend me the ADT101A cable as well.

So from there, once I'm all hooked up to the Viscomatic ECU, the tester should ideally be able to show exactly what the problem is?

finalfa
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Re: Q4 awd warning light on instrument cluster. HELP

Post by finalfa » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:16 am

Cavallino wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:08 pm
finalfa wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:09 am

Here you have all the electrical connections in the Viscomatic ECU, which is located in the center console, on the passenger side. If you have any questions about measuring these, I can help you. The AWD system on these cars are a little bit problematic when something goes wrong, but it is surprisingly fun doing diagnostics, and the feeling when you've solved it is unbeatable. I'm sure the problem is solvable. :D
So I don't need the Fiat-Lancia Morelli tester and MA12-A module if I use this method?
How do I measure each pin?
Nope, you don't NEED the tester. It just helps, very much. And speeds along the process quite good. You measure each pin directly from the ECU pins, by grounding one cable, and with the other touching the pin you want to measure. I can send you some pictures if you are intrested or need to use this method. It isn't at all hard, it's actually quite simply once you get the hang of it.
Cavallino wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:03 am
finalfa wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:59 am
Can be worth it to check in Alfabb.com / alfaowner.com, if anyone has a tester to loan/rent to you. The tester makes life just much more easy.
What you need is the Magneti Marelli tester, MA12-A module and ADT101A multiplexer cable. After that you're set.
My Alfa tech has the original North American tester that came with 5 modules, but there's a gentleman in NY local to me who has figured out a way to "burn" all of the modules onto blank eproms, and he can do so with the MA12-A module, in English, and is also willing to lend me the ADT101A cable as well.

So from there, once I'm all hooked up to the Viscomatic ECU, the tester should ideally be able to show exactly what the problem is?
Yep, the tester will give you a error code for example "Hydraulic Pressure, Value too low", or "Steering angle sensor, constant current" or something like that. With the tester, you will be able to remove the old error codes, and check all parameters directly from the tester. Now, unfortunately, the tester does not say exactly which part is broken or needs replacing. But it will help so much to get a clearer view of what's up with the system.
I, myself had a error code for "Hydraulic Pressure, value too low" and i went crazy trying to figure that one out. But i solved it at last.
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 -83
Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 -02
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.7 -96
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.0 -94

finalfa
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Re: Q4 awd warning light on instrument cluster. HELP

Post by finalfa » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:19 am

The tester socket for the AWD is also right next to the ECU. Passenger side in the centre console, remove cover and you should see the ECU with VISCOMATIC written on it. From there, you can follow a short cable which is a 3- pin connector, which the tester connects to.
Ask if you want pictures of anything. I can send you from my Q4´s, as trying to explain this in words surely will sound more complicated than it actually is..
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 -83
Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 -02
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.7 -96
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.0 -94

Cavallino
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Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:26 am

Re: Q4 awd warning light on instrument cluster. HELP

Post by Cavallino » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:54 am

finalfa wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:19 am
The tester socket for the AWD is also right next to the ECU. Passenger side in the centre console, remove cover and you should see the ECU with VISCOMATIC written on it. From there, you can follow a short cable which is a 3- pin connector, which the tester connects to.
Ask if you want pictures of anything. I can send you from my Q4´s, as trying to explain this in words surely will sound more complicated than it actually is..
I can't thank you enough for your endless help on this. I will send you a private message now to continue this conversation.

*will update this thread when I solve the issue.

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Marek_Kor
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Re: Q4 4WD warning light on instrument cluster

Post by Marek_Kor » Tue May 19, 2020 9:52 pm

I'm also dealing with some kind of 4WD problem - I don't have warning light on dashboard...but i have no 4WD light at the startup either. I guess it should light up for a few sec when I start the car, same as suspension etc. I think need to diagnose my Viscomatic. Is there anybody willing to share bin files (or sell files or eproms) for MA12-A module in English? I see new complete module on ebay in German - that will be my least preferred choice.

So far I was able to create MA3A for CDS suspension using baddinsbits files and tested my Q4 using Marelli FLT. I also connected to Motronic and Airbag using Wilco software (KUDOS!!). That's a lot of fun and interesting information about the car.

Cheers!

MikeCZ
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Re: Q4 4WD warning light on instrument cluster

Post by MikeCZ » Sat May 23, 2020 8:34 am

Maybe you could check if you have light bulb for Q4 warning light in the cluster at all - for example when I disassembled mine, I found out someone removed bulbs for airbags :roll:
Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 V6TB 1995 + Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0JTDm 2011
Ex: Honda Civic VIII 1.8 2010, Seat Leon ST FR1.4 TSI 2017, Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 JTDm 2007 berlina, Fiat Stilo 1.4 MW 2007

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