Home Register Manuals 164 Forum Interactive Library
Login

 
 

Immobilizer troubles.

For the technical things.

Immobilizer troubles.

Postby x3mperformance » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:05 am

Hi.
Finally back, after almost a full year at Work in different contries.

I wanted to start my Q4 up after hybernating way too long, so last monday, i started it up.
At first, when added a new battery, it just started, like i just had left it...
Then it took revenge, with a vengance!

I had to replace the altenator belt, and i put on a battery charger, after the new belt went on, i tryed to start it, with the charger on the battery.
It refused, and i could hear relays clicking.
Took off the charger, and since, the immobilizer refuses to go off!

Tryed to unhook the battery for some time, app 1 hour, no luck.

What do i do, ether to get the immobilizer to disconnect, or to by-pass it?

Tryed to locate the relay with the red line. Found 4, soforth, and swapped them. No luck.

I think i might try to swap the management over from the other car i have, but the keys are different, the one set, is the grey/Black and the daily driver is the newest with the maroon master and the red normal key.
And yep, i have read the other treads before posting.
Alfa 164 Q4 1994+95 (2x232 Ps)
Alfa 164 Super 3,0 24V '93
Alfa GTV 2,0 '84

Former Italien cars.:
Alfa 156 SW 2,0 TS 16v '00 (155 ps)
Alfa 155 1,6 TS 16v (120 Ps)
Fiat Tipo GT 2000 Turbo 8v (330 ps)
Fiat Tipo 1,4 DGT (68 ps)
Alfa Sud 1,3 Super [1,7QV] (117 Ps)
x3mperformance
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:37 am
Location: Paradise
Country: Denmark (dk)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby alfisti-164 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:18 am

Maybe it's your alarmsystem. If it is original, you can bypass it.

Disconnect the connector, and brich the two purple wires...

Good luck!
164 24v Super 1994
164 TS Facelift 1993
alfisti-164
Site Admin
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Arnhem
Country: Netherlands (nl)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby wilco » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:37 pm

if you have the red key, you have a code key. Normaly you should see "code" flashing in the instrumentpanel and then go off.
If it stays on, you have a code problem. If it goes off, the ECU doesn't see problems.
Do you have alarm on it too? the red alarmbox is in the back on the inner wheelfender above the battery.
Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
User avatar
wilco
3.0 V6 24V owner
 
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 pm
Country: Norway (no)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby 164 TD » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:38 pm

Do you have both (master and normal)red keys?

I have the complete "how to" to reprogram the immobilizer if you have both keys.
TD en Q4 owner

Image
User avatar
164 TD
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 1185
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk
Country: Netherlands (nl)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby x3mperformance » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:45 am

Hi, and thanks for the responds.

I haver both the master key (small maroon key) and the normal/everyday key (Big Red one.)

I have tryed to use the master key, but with no luck.
I will try to disconnect the original alarm, think it's located near the battery in the rear.
But i would be very happy, if the process for resetting the code would be posted.
I found it on Dutch, but i might speak and write in Danish, Swedish, English, German (to some extend) and castellano. (Spanish.) which are not helping me any nearer to understand the Dutch language. Sorry Guys.

But thanks for the help.
Alfa 164 Q4 1994+95 (2x232 Ps)
Alfa 164 Super 3,0 24V '93
Alfa GTV 2,0 '84

Former Italien cars.:
Alfa 156 SW 2,0 TS 16v '00 (155 ps)
Alfa 155 1,6 TS 16v (120 Ps)
Fiat Tipo GT 2000 Turbo 8v (330 ps)
Fiat Tipo 1,4 DGT (68 ps)
Alfa Sud 1,3 Super [1,7QV] (117 Ps)
x3mperformance
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:37 am
Location: Paradise
Country: Denmark (dk)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby alfisti-164 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:55 am

Don't just disconnect it, it won't work.

Put a paperclip or something to connect the purple wires:
Image

Image

Good luck!
164 24v Super 1994
164 TS Facelift 1993
alfisti-164
Site Admin
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Arnhem
Country: Netherlands (nl)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby 164 TD » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:28 pm

There is a difference between the alarm and the immobilizer.

When the code light and the injectionsymbol are on you have a problem with your immobilizer (codekey)
TD en Q4 owner

Image
User avatar
164 TD
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 1185
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk
Country: Netherlands (nl)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby x3mperformance » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:40 pm

I will try with the alarm.

As to the immobilizer, i think the injection-light goes out.
But i'm not 100% at that. I'll try when i comes home.
Alfa 164 Q4 1994+95 (2x232 Ps)
Alfa 164 Super 3,0 24V '93
Alfa GTV 2,0 '84

Former Italien cars.:
Alfa 156 SW 2,0 TS 16v '00 (155 ps)
Alfa 155 1,6 TS 16v (120 Ps)
Fiat Tipo GT 2000 Turbo 8v (330 ps)
Fiat Tipo 1,4 DGT (68 ps)
Alfa Sud 1,3 Super [1,7QV] (117 Ps)
x3mperformance
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:37 am
Location: Paradise
Country: Denmark (dk)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby x3mperformance » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:38 pm

Theres not even 1 (ONE) single purple wire to my alarm, at all... Not a single one!!!
But the injection light turns off when i put the key/s in the ignition, just the code light stays on???

Still no luck in getting it to life.
Alfa 164 Q4 1994+95 (2x232 Ps)
Alfa 164 Super 3,0 24V '93
Alfa GTV 2,0 '84

Former Italien cars.:
Alfa 156 SW 2,0 TS 16v '00 (155 ps)
Alfa 155 1,6 TS 16v (120 Ps)
Fiat Tipo GT 2000 Turbo 8v (330 ps)
Fiat Tipo 1,4 DGT (68 ps)
Alfa Sud 1,3 Super [1,7QV] (117 Ps)
x3mperformance
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:37 am
Location: Paradise
Country: Denmark (dk)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby 164 TD » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:44 pm

So it looks like the Alfacode is causing the trouble...

Remove both connectors of the battery and ty-rap them together for at least an hour.Hook it up and try again.

You should have 2 different types of codekeys; the Master key (squareshaped) and the red eggshaped key. Do you have the same problem with both keys?

Turn the key and within 5 seconds put the throttle 5 times to the bottom. Now read the flashingcode of the injectionlight.
TD en Q4 owner

Image
User avatar
164 TD
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 1185
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk
Country: Netherlands (nl)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby Alfan » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:37 pm

164 TD wrote:Turn the key and within 5 seconds put the throttle 5 times to the bottom. Now read the flashingcode of the injectionlight.


I guess there is no injection light in the Q4?

Welcome back, René 8)

PS: Reading your signature, did you add a 164 to the staple?
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 75.000km
User avatar
Alfan
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 1018
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Denmark
Country: Denmark (dk)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby 164 TD » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:46 pm

You are correct Alan; no flashingcodes on the ML3.7 motronic
TD en Q4 owner

Image
User avatar
164 TD
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 1185
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk
Country: Netherlands (nl)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby x3mperformance » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:05 am

HI Allan.

You are Sharp.
Yes, i added another 24v busso to the stable.
Actually, i'm picking it up today.
Black with Black leather sittin' on 16" Zender alloys.
Little rust in the rear Wheel Arches, and that's all.
So i hold a bout 890 hp on grass. (800+ Italien Horses.)
I do also have 1/2 part in a Opel Corsa. At least the model name sounds Italien. :?

But I'll try to hook up the positive and the negative to each other today.
But i'm quit confused about the alarm, where there's no purple wires. There are two connectors, so i will try to locate two uniformed coloured wires at the shown location.

And Allan...
There's an injection light in the Q4, but will it flash?

Rene''
Alfa 164 Q4 1994+95 (2x232 Ps)
Alfa 164 Super 3,0 24V '93
Alfa GTV 2,0 '84

Former Italien cars.:
Alfa 156 SW 2,0 TS 16v '00 (155 ps)
Alfa 155 1,6 TS 16v (120 Ps)
Fiat Tipo GT 2000 Turbo 8v (330 ps)
Fiat Tipo 1,4 DGT (68 ps)
Alfa Sud 1,3 Super [1,7QV] (117 Ps)
x3mperformance
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:37 am
Location: Paradise
Country: Denmark (dk)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby 164 TD » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:33 am

I just scanned and uploaded the schematics and manuals of the "Alfa Romeo Code".

Depending on the model you will see a couple of fuses that are in the ARC system as well; you might have a look as these two as well!

Alfa Romeo Code

Image
TD en Q4 owner

Image
User avatar
164 TD
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 1185
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 3:13 pm
Location: Honselersdijk
Country: Netherlands (nl)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby x3mperformance » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:52 pm

No luck, at all... :(

The trick with the battery terminals, off the battery, and connected for about an hour, did not Work...

I have been through the section with the Alfa Code.
Not very much is in English, and rest is for no use for me, due to language.
Alfa 164 Q4 1994+95 (2x232 Ps)
Alfa 164 Super 3,0 24V '93
Alfa GTV 2,0 '84

Former Italien cars.:
Alfa 156 SW 2,0 TS 16v '00 (155 ps)
Alfa 155 1,6 TS 16v (120 Ps)
Fiat Tipo GT 2000 Turbo 8v (330 ps)
Fiat Tipo 1,4 DGT (68 ps)
Alfa Sud 1,3 Super [1,7QV] (117 Ps)
x3mperformance
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:37 am
Location: Paradise
Country: Denmark (dk)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby Alfan » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:39 pm

Does the injection light come on in your Q4? There is no connection to it in mine.

I have no experience with the immobilizer, as mine doesn't have it, but I don't see how the alarm could be causing your problems.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 75.000km
User avatar
Alfan
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 1018
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Denmark
Country: Denmark (dk)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby wilco » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:47 pm

The Q4 has standard no engine light and also no connection to it. But, you can make it work.
Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
User avatar
wilco
3.0 V6 24V owner
 
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 pm
Country: Norway (no)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby g84 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:39 am

wilco wrote:The Q4 has standard no engine light and also no connection to it. But, you can make it work.


My engine light is working.
JK
164 Q4-95
146 Ti -97
g84
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:28 am
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden (se)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby wilco » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:56 pm

thats nice :) but from factory, they are not there
Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
User avatar
wilco
3.0 V6 24V owner
 
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 pm
Country: Norway (no)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby x3mperformance » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:30 pm

Still no luck.
And no, it was not an injector light... It was only the "schock absorber" that indicates the active susspension...
Sorry to confuse some of you.

The two fuses in the immobilizer system, where are they hidden?

Is there any posibility that i fryed my management system? (Trying to start the engine with the power booster on.)
It made some relay noises and serious clicking when i attempted to start it.

Uhh, spring is commin', and the Alfa is stuck, without it's butiful music.
Alfa 164 Q4 1994+95 (2x232 Ps)
Alfa 164 Super 3,0 24V '93
Alfa GTV 2,0 '84

Former Italien cars.:
Alfa 156 SW 2,0 TS 16v '00 (155 ps)
Alfa 155 1,6 TS 16v (120 Ps)
Fiat Tipo GT 2000 Turbo 8v (330 ps)
Fiat Tipo 1,4 DGT (68 ps)
Alfa Sud 1,3 Super [1,7QV] (117 Ps)
x3mperformance
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:37 am
Location: Paradise
Country: Denmark (dk)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby alfisti-164 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:34 pm

The relay noises and serious clicking indicates a to low current.

If I start my 24v on starter cables I have the same. If I put a battery in: no problems!

Do not use a external starter-thing. ;)
164 24v Super 1994
164 TS Facelift 1993
alfisti-164
Site Admin
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Arnhem
Country: Netherlands (nl)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby Alfan » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:41 pm

I have had no trouble starting the Alfa or Lancia with a start booster. I don't see why that should cause problems?
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 75.000km
User avatar
Alfan
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 1018
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Denmark
Country: Denmark (dk)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby alfisti-164 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:46 am

Problems like you reed above. The starter needs to be fully loaded, or at least strong enough for the high usage of amps the 164 has.
Probably yours is. :)

If it cuts short, because of what ever reason, everything starts to flip out (doormechanism, dashboard lighting, relais everywhere).
Things are getting (how do you put it in right English) electrified, but the starter pulls so much Amps that the relais fall back in the resting position. The current just is not strong enough!


By the way, did you check if the grounds on the rear cilinderbank are still ok? The wire that is connected one the left of the air-intake-housing is a very important one!
164 24v Super 1994
164 TS Facelift 1993
alfisti-164
Site Admin
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Arnhem
Country: Netherlands (nl)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby Alfan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:36 am

alfisti-164 wrote:Problems like you reed above. The starter needs to be fully loaded, or at least strong enough for the high usage of amps the 164 has.
Probably yours is. :)


Sure, I was just surprised, as I have only experienced that when the battery in the car is low on power, never with an external source.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 75.000km
User avatar
Alfan
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 1018
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Denmark
Country: Denmark (dk)

Re: Immobilizer troubles.

Postby x3mperformance » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:21 pm

I am very frustraited by my non mobile Q4.

Is there any way to disconnect the imobilizer, at all?
No luck with anything, and the two fuses for the imobilizer system, i can't locate, i have no clue to where to start looking for this kind of problems.
My boss is upset, because the car is standing in the way for normal Work!!!
HELP!
Alfa 164 Q4 1994+95 (2x232 Ps)
Alfa 164 Super 3,0 24V '93
Alfa GTV 2,0 '84

Former Italien cars.:
Alfa 156 SW 2,0 TS 16v '00 (155 ps)
Alfa 155 1,6 TS 16v (120 Ps)
Fiat Tipo GT 2000 Turbo 8v (330 ps)
Fiat Tipo 1,4 DGT (68 ps)
Alfa Sud 1,3 Super [1,7QV] (117 Ps)
x3mperformance
Q4 owner
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:37 am
Location: Paradise
Country: Denmark (dk)

Next

Return to Technical

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests