164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

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AlfaGixxer
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164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by AlfaGixxer » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:19 pm

Hi All,

Does anyone know the P/N for subject? '96 model, it was first registered in Italy.
Having trouble to start it after a major overhaul/clutch replacement. After our initial investigation all points to ECU problem.

Also, if anyone knows where to get a new one would be greatly appreciated. Had no luck to find any globally.

Thanks,
164 V6 TB SUPER

164 TD
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by 164 TD » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:55 am

One of the TB's made it all the way to Australia!

The TB has 2 ECU's; one for motronic and one for spark advancing.

Since it is a '96 model; is your motronic or codelight on?

Any welding done on the car with the battery connected?
TD en Q4 owner

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Alfan
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by Alfan » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:10 pm

This is the info from Bosch for a V6 Turbo from 95 ->

Partnumber 0261203833
Steuergerät, Jetronic/Motronic
Fertigungseinstellung 03/2011
Typformel ML 4.1

It fits this info:

http://www.boschecus.com/bosch-02612038 ... -turbo-ecu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Maybe this is a possibility:

http://auto24parts.com/en_GB/p/CALCULAT ... 3400/49028" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

164 TD
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by 164 TD » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:04 pm

I have send info over the V6 Turbo to AlfaGixxer via email.

So far I have never heard before of a failed ECU and as said, the V6 Turbo has 2 ECU's.
TD en Q4 owner

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mick164
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by mick164 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:28 pm

..hello all.

I'm in a similar situation. We suspect the ignition ECU (0 227 400 228) on my TB is a problem as we're getting fuel but no spark.

I can't find anyone to test this ecu though, would anybody have any ideas..?

Thanks :)

perry
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by perry » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:16 pm

Silly question have you checked the main earth strap on the g/box to body is good and tight ??

mick164
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by mick164 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:12 am

..that's not a silly question at all, but yeah the earth strap is ok i think :)

Anyhow we sourced an ecu from a GTV TB and she starts and runs.. phew..!

Not many people were set up to test this particular ecu, so trouble shooting is awkward enough.

Anyhow, the cars has been standing for a while so there's some other stuff to sort out as well, but hopefully there will be another 164 back on the road soon enough :)

MikeCZ
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by MikeCZ » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:39 pm

Hello guys,

So my car is finally running (did 80km so far) but still have one thing to sort out - both speedometer and RPM meter are "bouncing":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3CK735u28Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I suspect some groundin point issues (cleaned ignition coil contacts already, although from what I found it should take info about RPMs from ECU on Super models, unlike on preFL versions - but who know with those 12v.... :D) but a bit lost... I went through the electronic diagrams and grounding points related to instrument panel are (point number, connector to which it's related (and purpose), grounding point location):
G148 - B39 (trip reset), B60 (test button) /under dashboard
+G283 - L14 (coolant level sensor) / on service box, right side
+G174 - GND only / steering wheel column support
G182 - H1 (break switch), R26 (seat belt) / center console
G186 - L9 (fuel quantity transmiter) /trunk right side

So none of those seems to be the right now... I'm thinking about ECU grounding points, but don't have much info on those - pin-out for ECUs is for GTV(916) TB, wiring diagrams are usually for Motronic 1.7... so I'm unsure how much I can trust those :( I know this is kind sad crying in the corner :D but if anybody would have idea where to look it would be much appreicated :)
Thanks.
Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 V6TB 1995
Ex: Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 JTDm 2007 berlina
Ex: Fiat Stilo 1.4 MW 2007

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pinino
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by pinino » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:36 am

I wonder if this needle twitching might be caused by a bad solder joint in the instrument cluster itself, a line that supplies (or grounds) both speedo and tach potis.

There's a discussion on the AlfaBB that touches on this : https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-16 ... -woes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unfortunately I don't seem to have assess to any manuals or schematics on the alfaromeo164register site, clicking them fetches an empty page. Are other users having the same problem?

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Alfan
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by Alfan » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:09 am

Apparently, they are updating the site, so hopefully it will all be available again soon:

http://alfaromeo164register.com/viewtop ... =14&t=1986" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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pinino
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by pinino » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:32 pm

Thanks Alfan, that's comforting to know. I think there's an instrument cluster schematic there which would be helpful in determining the cause of this (fascinating) joint speedo-tach twitch. I notice that the other gauges are quiet.

MikeCZ
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by MikeCZ » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:33 pm

Hello guys,

@Pinino: Thank you for the link, I will go through it. However it was not misbehaving like this before we removed part of the electric wiring for engine during the engine removal-insert. So I rather suspect loose connecion somewhere.

So far I tried to disconnect and clean all cable connections I could think of thta we removed (those going through the firewall, gearbox grounding, big and small cirucular connectors behind the firewall (G151 and G154 if I remember those numbers correctly) but no change (actually during first go it got even worse :D So I went again through them one by one but this time without change) - still have to check the connector on speed sensor, though (damn, why winter is comming and it's gettin cold, now? :D). I also tried to disconnect and clean with contact cleaner all connectors to instrument cluster. No change. Also I tried to disconnect both ECU (ML4.1 and EZ212K) and clean connectors on those (as I was disconnecting them when trying to figure out why it was not starting after reassembly - turend out to be faulty crankshaft position sensor (had resistance of 520ohms instead of 880-900ohms). This "finally" brought some change... it stopped to starting completely :roll: :lol: I checked grounding and electric potential and it gets nice 12V as it should... Fuses are OK and I got 12v on fuel pump relay. So I will have to check the rest as soon as I will have time.

In worst case scenario I have a set of spare ECU here but don't have immo box from that car (maybe could get it though...) so swap to those would require pairing of old immo with new ECU and this is not something what is my cup of tea to be honest :)
Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 V6TB 1995
Ex: Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 JTDm 2007 berlina
Ex: Fiat Stilo 1.4 MW 2007

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pinino
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by pinino » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:33 am

"but no change (actually during first go it got even worse" . . . still have to check the connector on speed sensor"

See if you can revisit this "got even worse" area--maybe that's where it is. It seems dubious to me that the speedo sender connector L17 would cause a twitch on the tach too, but I guess it's possible. Personally I had the darnedest time resolving a bad connection at L17 that would trick the ECU of the CDS. After annual cleanings (the problem always came back) I finally had to take that connector completely apart to analyze it and adding some tension to the clipping action of the female component seems to have solved the problem. You could have a problem as simple as that.

MikeCZ
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by MikeCZ » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:17 pm

Issue still ongoing...
I fixed problem with starting (bad connector on the line from immo box to main ECU harness), so that's one thing.
But dials are still acting in a funny way.
What was checked and some observations:
- grounds - all on all engine parts (intake manifold, throtle body, engine heads,...), etc. there seems to be good ground
- connection from coil - to dialsc connector C10 (CII) pin 8 - OK
- power module - diod test returns solid values, grounds are OK
- dial ground from C10 (DII) pin 18 - OK
- engine runs evenly
- I tried to test RPM also with multimeter I have and which has option to test such thing (by connecting to coil - and to car ground) and it shows simillar behavior like dials...
- I tried to disconnect speedometer sensor in case it generates some interference but also no change (+ I have two other borrowed which I will test later on in case speedo is also faulty)
- cleared pins on connector G154 on firewall which interconnects wires both for coil spring and power module grounds but also no change

On Tuesday I will have another dials borrowed from a friend who also has TB for test if the dial cluster itself isn't faulty, but I don't have much hopes in it (since multimeter shows similar behavior like dials).
I was also thinking if ignition cables can't be bad/cause interference, but a) I think that would also have impact on engine operation b) they were replaced for new one by previous owner few years ago.
EDIT: One more thing I may (probably will) try is to replace the ignition coil, just in case (I have a spare new one).

Any other suggestion? :?
Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 V6TB 1995
Ex: Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 JTDm 2007 berlina
Ex: Fiat Stilo 1.4 MW 2007

MikeCZ
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Location: Ostrava region
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by MikeCZ » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:51 pm

Tested two spare speed sensors (inserted into drilling machine) and it's also bouncing... So speed sensor in my car is most likely OK.
Then I tried to swap out the ignition coil and here is some progress. Now multimeter connected either to the coil or all the way to connector C10 (CII) pin 8 return stable value around 1000rpm idling with cold engine - that looks OK.
But the dials are still jumping - less (tested only RPM dial) and when shows value it's more stable, but still it's way far from ideal.
I have here disassembled dials and I don't see anything wrong on first glance (not that this is my main field expertise... :D).
But considering fact both dials were jumping I would aim for some common issue, but as ground was checked from dials and looks OK I'm gotting lost :?

Any idea? BIggest microcontroler on the board which I think is responsible for all dials is marked as:
185
25064923
D82R
KQQCR9505J

Unfortunately test of spare dials was moved to Friday so I will have to train my patience a bit...
Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 V6TB 1995
Ex: Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 JTDm 2007 berlina
Ex: Fiat Stilo 1.4 MW 2007

MikeCZ
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Location: Ostrava region
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Re: 164 V6 TB Super ECU part no.

Post by MikeCZ » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:16 pm

To keep this updated, issues is really with the dials - I tested it with dials from another car and those worked just fine.
Then I put back my old and begin to search for replacements and in the meanwhile I went with car to wash it and then did around 20km ride... after 10km dials started to work properly :D So I'm really interested how lon they will stay this way - probably some bad contact on electronic board.
Anyway on Wednesday I'm going for MOT so hopefully after that the car will be "street leagal" again... :)
Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 V6TB 1995
Ex: Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 JTDm 2007 berlina
Ex: Fiat Stilo 1.4 MW 2007

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