Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

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quadrifoglioquattro
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Modena

Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

Post by quadrifoglioquattro » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:36 pm

Ciao,

after almost 10 years of happy Q4 owning, the 4WD light is now on :(

The 4WD light comes on usually accelerating on a straight line, unfortunately my mechanic is unable to diagnosis the source of the problem

Does any already had something similar? Is there a way to have the Q4 system checked by a "modern" computer?

Thank You in advance,

Victor
Ciao from Italy,
quadrifoglioquattro

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AlfaWhiz
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:15 pm

Re: Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

Post by AlfaWhiz » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:50 pm

Hi Victor,

as far as I'm aware - only F/L Tester can do the trick, no chance to diagnose the 4WD system using any modern equipment I'm afraid. :(

Best bet to find someone with the correct Marelli tester and modules, and do the diagnosis this way. I was also unable to diagnose mine a few years ago so I decided to buy the F/L Tester and our colleague here from the forum can program the correct modules for the tester.

But maybe there is someone within reasonable distance who could be able to help. Good luck!

quadrifoglioquattro
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Modena

Re: Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

Post by quadrifoglioquattro » Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:01 pm

My mechanic (old AR workshop) said that has already tested the car with the right module (must be MA-12A, right?) but I will verify this tomorrow.
It seems that the tester is not giving back any feedback.. (?)

Can You explain me the full correct procedure to test the Viscomatic system with the Magneti Marelli tester? I want to be sure that him is not missing anything..

Thanks again

Victor
Ciao from Italy,
quadrifoglioquattro

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Alfan
Q4 owner
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Re: Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

Post by Alfan » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:44 am

There might be another system used by workshops, which can handle the Q4 system, but I have never seen it, so the Marelli tester is your best option.

I have experienced on some 164's it can be very difficult to get connection with the ECU's, so maybe he should also try to connect to the Motronic unit. First thing to make sure is that the Marelli tester sees that it has the correct module plugged in, MA12A. Then test that the 3 wires in the diagnosis plug has connection to the Viscomatic ECU.

I assume that the ABS is still good (4WD uses the ABS), so one thing you should consider is to make sure that there is no corrosion in any of the electrical plugs.

Maybe you can also find some useful information in the technical discussions on this site - good luck :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 65kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 195kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 100kkm

finalfa
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:44 pm
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

Post by finalfa » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:59 am

Can you verify that the AWD does NOT work when the light is on?
I have had the light come up a couple of times, but the AWD works even though the light is on. The reason for the light coming up a couple of times was the steering angle sensor having a poor connection. There's a couple of ways to verify function of the AWD system. Easiest is probably to put floor it in a low gear, and see if it torque steers extremely or not. I have found that the Q4 without functioning AWD torque steers VERY much, because unlike the other 164;s, the Q4 doesn't have a steering damper in the rack.
With functioning AWD, there should be no torque steer at all.
Conclusion: make sure that when the light comes on, that AWD is not functioning. This can reduce the possible causes for your error.
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 -83
Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 -02
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.7 -96
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.0 -94

finalfa
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:44 pm
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

Post by finalfa » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:43 pm

quadrifoglioquattro wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:01 pm
My mechanic (old AR workshop) said that has already tested the car with the right module (must be MA-12A, right?) but I will verify this tomorrow.
It seems that the tester is not giving back any feedback.. (?)

Can You explain me the full correct procedure to test the Viscomatic system with the Magneti Marelli tester? I want to be sure that him is not missing anything..

Thanks again

Victor
Besides the correct module (MA-12A) you also need the ADT-101A multiplexer adapter.
Connect the tester to the Viscomatic ECU unit which is located in the center console. Remove the passenger center console "cover", and connect to the 3- pin connector that is coming from the Viscomatic ECU.
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 -83
Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 -02
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.7 -96
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.0 -94

quadrifoglioquattro
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Modena

Re: Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

Post by quadrifoglioquattro » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:59 pm

Thank You for Your feedbacks!

I've been trying as You suggested, the AWD is not working when the light is on
Today I've stopped by to my mechanic and he's got the right tester but unfortunately he doesn't have the correct module (MA-12A)

Does anyone have a spare module?

Thank You and Happy Christmas!
Ciao from Italy,
quadrifoglioquattro

finalfa
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:44 pm
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

Post by finalfa » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:33 am

If i remember correctly, there is someone in Germany who replicates the modules for the tester. I will see if i can find some contact details to him. I remember that some people on this forum bought his modules.

And remember to check with your mechanic about the ADT101-A, you will do absolutely nothing with just the tester and the correct module.
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 -83
Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 -02
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.7 -96
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.0 -94

finalfa
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:44 pm
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

Post by finalfa » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:36 am

164 TD wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:48 am
timley.at.gmx.dot.de

The modules he's offering are below:


menu in german (D):

MA1B, Bosch Motronic ML 4.1/ L-Jetronic L 3.2 ; Alfa 164/75/33/Spider
MF1A, Marelli IAW 04F.07 ; Ferrari F40 ohne Kat
MF1B, Marelli IAW 04F.07, 04F/40, 04F/50 ; Ferrari F40 mit Kat
M1C, Marelli Weber, SPI-GM ; Fiat Croma/Tipo
MA2A, Bosch ABS 2E/2K ; Alfa 33/145/155
MF2A, Bilstein Fahrwerk B46-779 ; Ferrari Mondial t
MF2B, Klima, Bilstein B46-779, MED120 B/D, BoschKE-Jetronic ; Ferrari 348, Mondial t, Testarossa
M2A, ; ?
M2B, Marelli Weber Digiplex 2, Microplex, Zündanlage Lancia Thema 8.32
mit Steuergeräte Nr. 0280 800 225 ; Fiat Uno/Tipo/Tempra/Thema 8.32
MA3A, SCS-Fahrwerk Permanent 4/Q4/4X4 ; Alfa 164Q4 Super / 33 P4, Q4
MF3A, Bosch Motronic M 2.7 ; Ferrari 348/Mondial T
M3A, ; ?
M3B, Bosch Monojetronic ; Fiat Panda
MA4A, Bosch Motronic M 1.7; Bosch Motronic M 1.7 ; Alfa 164 Super/155
M4B, SCS-Fahrwerk ; Alfa 164 Super/155
MA5A, Marelli Weber IAW 8F.68 Boxer 1.4 IEL ; Alfa 33
MF5A, Bosch Motronic M 2.7 ; Ferrari 512 TR
MA6B, Bosch Motronic ML 4.1 V6TB mit /EZ212K, Motronic M 1.7 mit Alfa Code; Alfa 164/155/GTV Fiat Croma
M6B, Marelli Weber USA´83 ; Fiat Croma/Tempra/Tipo
MA7A, Bosch ABS 2S Hybrid ; Alfa 164 Super
M7A, Girling ABS 2/2 ; Fiat Tipo/Tempra/Dedra
MA8A, Marelli Weber ; Alfa 155Q4
M8A, ECVT Automatikgetriebe ; Fiat Panda
M8B, Fuji ECVT 821 u. MX665 Automatikgetriebe ; Fiat Panda, Y10, Punto Selectra
MA9A, Airbag (Siemens) ; Alfa 164Q4 Super
MA10A, Bosch Motronic M 3.7 u. MP3.1 ; Alfa164Q4 / 33 1.7/145 1.6
M10A, Automatik-Getriebe VW AG4 ; Fiat Tipo/Tempra/Dedra
M11A, EGR Diesel ; Fiat Ducato/Tempra/Tipo
M11B, EGR Diesel ; Fiat Ducato/Croma/Alfa 145,146 TD
MA12A, Viscomatic 164Q4 (Steyr) ; Alfa 164Q4 Super
M12A, Bosch ABS 2E ; Fiat Uno/Croma
M12B, Bosch ABS 2E / 2SH – SI ; Fiat Uno, Punto, Coupe´,…
MA13A, Diesel MS-A11 164TD/155 2.5TD ; Alfa 155/164 Super
MA14A, Marelli automatisches Verdeck ; Alfa Spider/GTV
M14A, Borletti automatische Heizung, Klimaanlage ; Fiat Uno/Tempra
MA15A, Bosch Motronic M 2.10.4 1,6;1,8;2,0L TwinSpark 16v ; Alfa 145/146 /155
M15A, Marelli Niveauregulierung ; Fiat Tempra S.W.
M18A, Alarmanlage/Airbag ; Alfa 164Q4 Super/Lancia Thema
M19A, Marelli IAW - P8 ; Fiat Tipo/Tempra
M20A, Marelli Digiplex 2/2S, Microplex/S; Fiat Tipo/Tempra/Croma/Cinquecento
M21A, Marelli Weber SPI, I.A.W. 6F ; Cinquecento, Panda, Punto
M23A, Marelli IAW - P8 (selbstadaptierend); Fiat Tipo/Tempra/Coupe´
M24A, Bosch M1.7 / M2.7 Fiat ; Fiat Croma
M25A, Bosch Monomotroni ; Fiat Tempra
M25B, Bosch Monomotronic MA 1.7 u. MA 1.7.3 ; Delta 1.4/1.6 Tempra 1.4
M26A, Aut. Getriebe ZF-Bosch CAE ; Alfa 164 Super/Croma V6/Thema
M27A, Diesel MS-A6 ; Alfa 155/164 Super
M28A, Marelli Weber MPI, I.A.W. 8F.52 ;Alfa 145 B1.3/1.4, Tipo, Tempra, Punto
M29A, Fiat Airbag(TRW), Diebstahlwarnanlage/Wegfahrsperre(ICIT)
; Alfa 145 Alarm (ICIT),Punto,Lancia
M30A, Bosch ABS 4X4 2SI ; Alfa 164Q4/Lancia Dedra S.W. 4x4
M32A, Marelli Weber MPI, I.A.W ; Fiat Ducato/Ulysse/
M33A, ACG Multec, Rochester, Multipoint GM ; Punto, Tempra, Dedra, Alfa 145 B1.6
M34A, Bosch MSA 11 Turbo Diesel ;Fiat Ducato/Croma/Lancia Thema/k
M35A, Bosch Motronic MP 3.2 ; Ulysse Turbo/Zeta
M36A, Bosch Motronic M 2.10.3 / Boxer 1.7 16v ; Alfa 145/146
M36B, Bosch Motronic M 2.10.3 mit Alfa Code 1.7 16v/2.0 16v ; Alfa Spider/GTV/145/146
M40A, Airbag mit Gurtstraffer, TRW Diebstahlsicherung, Sipea ; Alfa Spider/GTV
M42B, Superverriegelung / Texton Alarmanlage Safe-Diebstahlsicherung ; Ulysse/Zeta
M43A, MFI-O Hitachi ; Fiat Barchetta
M44A, Bosch Motronic M3.7 mit Alfa Code Spider 3.0V6/164Q4 ; Alfa Spider/GTV/164Q4
M45A, Fiat-Code, Alfa-Code, Lancia-Code IAW, Rochester, Diesel nur MS-A6; Alfa 145 und Diverse
M46A, Bosch Motronic M1.7 / M2.7 Fiat Code ; ?
M47A, ABS ATE MK 20 alle Modelle ; ?
M48A, Marelli Weber MPI, I.A.W IAF 13 mit Fiat Code ; ?
M49A, Bosch Motronic M 2.10.4 mit Fiat Code ; ?
M50A, Airbag ohne Crashschalter im Motorraum ; Alfa 164 Super
M52A, Lancia Z - Klimaanlage Behr
M56A, Bosch ABS 5.3 ; Alfa 145,146,155
M58A, Airbag ; Ulysse, Scudo und Zeta
M60A, Diesel Lucas ; Lancia Z.2.1 TD

menu in nederlands (NL):

MA1B, Bosch Motronic ML 4.1/ L-Jetronic L 3.2 ; Alfa 164/75/33/Spider
MA2A, Bosch ABS 2E/2K ; Alfa 33/145/155
MA3A, SCS-Fahrwerk Permanent 4/Q4/4X4 ; Alfa 164Q4 Super / 33 P4, Q4
MA4A, Bosch Motronic M 1.7; Bosch Motronic M 1.7 ; Alfa 164 Super/155
MA8A, Marelli Weber ; Alfa 155Q4
MA9A, Airbag (Siemens) ; Alfa 164Q4 Super
MA10A, Bosch Motronic M 3.7 u. MP3.1 ; Alfa164Q4 / 33 1.7/145 1.6
M18A, Alarmanlage/Airbag ; Alfa 164Q4 Super/Lancia Thema

one Modul: 30 Euro + shipping
recycling from old Modul you send me first: 20 Euro + shipping
This is taken from another thread, but here's the list of "availible" modules and contact details.
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 -83
Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 -02
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.7 -96
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.0 -94

quadrifoglioquattro
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:46 pm
Location: Modena

Re: Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

Post by quadrifoglioquattro » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm

I've contacted the guy and he will ship the module next week!
I'll keep You posted on the full diagnosis

Thank You for all the support!

Victor
Ciao from Italy,
quadrifoglioquattro

finalfa
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:44 pm
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Trouble diagnostics for 4WD light

Post by finalfa » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:21 am

Any updates on the matter of the 4WD? Have you managed to get the error codes read?
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 -83
Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 -02
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.7 -96
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.0 -94

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