Viscomatic/hydraulic group
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Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Hello @ all,
bought recently my first 164 Q4 with problems on the viscomatic system. Previous owner tried to repair but did'n manage to do so...
The hydraulic group is dismanteld, tubes as well, therefore I have a doubt on the positions where to fix the hydraulic tubes. The two lines with the screw fittings (guess these are the pressure lines) are obvious but the two other with the ring-fittings (returns) can be excanged.
Can anybody post a picture or description on which positions the tubes should be installed?
Many thanks for your help.
JP
bought recently my first 164 Q4 with problems on the viscomatic system. Previous owner tried to repair but did'n manage to do so...
The hydraulic group is dismanteld, tubes as well, therefore I have a doubt on the positions where to fix the hydraulic tubes. The two lines with the screw fittings (guess these are the pressure lines) are obvious but the two other with the ring-fittings (returns) can be excanged.
Can anybody post a picture or description on which positions the tubes should be installed?
Many thanks for your help.
JP
Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Welcome JP,
I made this hydraulic schematic in the past, will this be of any help?

In our "manuals" section, you can find, amongst others, the productbulletin:
productionbulletin Q4
I made this hydraulic schematic in the past, will this be of any help?

In our "manuals" section, you can find, amongst others, the productbulletin:
productionbulletin Q4
TD en Q4 owner


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Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
thank you very much for your answer. I found it here as well but unfortunately, it doesn't help as the connexions are not indicated.
there is one hose which is connected twice on the hydraulic group - a big ring fitting with a smaller one at the end. It would already be a help to know if the small ring fitting is connected to the connexion close to the accumulator or sidewise on the hydraulic group. If this one is fitted correctly, the others are obvious.
there is one hose which is connected twice on the hydraulic group - a big ring fitting with a smaller one at the end. It would already be a help to know if the small ring fitting is connected to the connexion close to the accumulator or sidewise on the hydraulic group. If this one is fitted correctly, the others are obvious.
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Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Thats it - excellent
thousand thanks


thousand thanks


Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
This is a picture of the Q4 mockup at the engineering department of Alfa in those days.
Although the lines are not connected to the viscomatic, it will give you a rough idea how things were hooked up to the hydraulic unit.

Although the lines are not connected to the viscomatic, it will give you a rough idea how things were hooked up to the hydraulic unit.
TD en Q4 owner


Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Welcome JP. Hope you can post some photos of your bella. And to see how internationally 164 ownership is spread it's always interesting in which you country you live. Maybe you can share that with us.
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Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Thx
bought that car in Germany but will be registered later (when its finished) in Luxemburg. Of course I can post some pictures, probably next week, when it's on its weels again
Will install the rear axle this weekend, hope that purging the system will work with the "resistance method". Plan to use Liqui Moly Power Stering Fluid for the hydraulics.
Followed by some general maintenace and it will be on the road again
courious to drive that car, actually its my first Alfa, used to drive the SAAB 9000 AERO.

bought that car in Germany but will be registered later (when its finished) in Luxemburg. Of course I can post some pictures, probably next week, when it's on its weels again

Will install the rear axle this weekend, hope that purging the system will work with the "resistance method". Plan to use Liqui Moly Power Stering Fluid for the hydraulics.
Followed by some general maintenace and it will be on the road again

Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Pictures of disassembly and reassembly would also be nice - and photos of how you hooked up the visco-lines, so the answer to your question is available 

1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 65kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 195kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 100kkm
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 65kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 195kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 100kkm
Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Hello!164 TD wrote:This is a picture of the Q4 mockup at the engineering department of Alfa in those days.
Although the lines are not connected to the viscomatic, it will give you a rough idea how things were hooked up to the hydraulic unit.
Please tell me where I can read the whole article?
Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
I'm currently working abroad, I will be back in 3 weeks. I will post the complete article when I get home.
TD en Q4 owner


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Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Hi @ all,
took a few day but finally managed to bring the 4WD back to live again

following a few pics.
- the hydraulic group unit

- under the car

- engine compartiment

- inside

took a few day but finally managed to bring the 4WD back to live again


following a few pics.
- the hydraulic group unit

- under the car

- engine compartiment

- inside

- ALFAHEIDA
- 3.5 V6 12V Savali owner
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Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Well done!


Alfa 164 QV(S) 12V 3.5 Project '91 /Alfa 164 3.0 12V Automatic '89
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Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
bleeding the system was quite easy, a 5 minutes show. Probably of interest how I made it...

- took a 100 kOhm resistance which I trimmed to the right value (ca. 25kOhm)
- connect to the plug
- fill oil in (liqui Moly Power Stering Fluid - Art. N° 1127)
- Mount the car, start the engine
- 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear up to +/- 2000 rpm
- after a few seconds, the 4WD light switched off
- done

- took a 100 kOhm resistance which I trimmed to the right value (ca. 25kOhm)
- connect to the plug
- fill oil in (liqui Moly Power Stering Fluid - Art. N° 1127)
- Mount the car, start the engine
- 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear up to +/- 2000 rpm
- after a few seconds, the 4WD light switched off
- done
Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
xaveriusba wrote:bleeding the system was quite easy, a 5 minutes show. Probably of interest how I made it...
- took a 100 kOhm resistance which I trimmed to the right value (ca. 25kOhm)
- connect to the plug
- fill oil in (liqui Moly Power Stering Fluid - Art. N° 1127)
- Mount the car, start the engine
- 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear up to +/- 2000 rpm
- after a few seconds, the 4WD light switched off
- done
Interesting solution; how did you get to it and how did you get to the 25kOhm?
TD en Q4 owner


Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Your intake pipe looks interesting, any closeups on that? How are sensor and breather pipes attached?
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--
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Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
have a look @ the shematics of the viscomatic system, you will notice that the presure sensor (L56) is nothing else than a "potential divider" which you can realize either by two well defined resistances or by one poti (which always has 3 connexions - reff voltage (+), Grouns(Interesting solution; how did you get to it and how did you get to the 25kOhm?
-) and the "tap" (in the middle which is the value for the ECU)
If you mesure the resistance on the presure sensor between the pins B+C without any presure, you will get the "idle resistance" which was on my senors around 25kOhms. Taking the resistance between pins A+B is more or the less the same so total resistance should be somewhere around 60 kOhm but as I only had a 100k in Stock, I took this one. (you can get this restistances in any electronic shops)
just take care how you connect the resistance to the connector.
***the hint for the "resistance solution" I found somewher on the internet, probably here in this forum, don't remember anymore. The idea with the poti is inspired by the shematics***
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Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
will take a few closeups with description. Have to examine firstTamariini wrote:Your intake pipe looks interesting, any closeups on that? How are sensor and breather pipes attached?

Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
I kind of explained this theory in this topic, however I never tried it. bleeding viscomatic systemxaveriusba wrote:have a look @ the shematics of the viscomatic system, you will notice that the presure sensor (L56) is nothing else than a "potential divider" which you can realize either by two well defined resistances or by one poti (which always has 3 connexions - reff voltage (+), Grouns(Interesting solution; how did you get to it and how did you get to the 25kOhm?
-) and the "tap" (in the middle which is the value for the ECU)
If you mesure the resistance on the presure sensor between the pins B+C without any presure, you will get the "idle resistance" which was on my senors around 25kOhms. Taking the resistance between pins A+B is more or the less the same so total resistance should be somewhere around 60 kOhm but as I only had a 100k in Stock, I took this one. (you can get this restistances in any electronic shops)
just take care how you connect the resistance to the connector.
***the hint for the "resistance solution" I found somewher on the internet, probably here in this forum, don't remember anymore. The idea with the poti is inspired by the shematics***
You just proved the "Higgs particle theory"!
TD en Q4 owner


Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
it's funny to see how simple things can be while they look so difficult 
i did it by just opening the linen to bleed them, that worked for me.

i did it by just opening the linen to bleed them, that worked for me.
Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
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Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
sorry, cannot post more pictures - board is full but can explain; it's quite easy installedTamariini wrote:Your intake pipe looks interesting, any closeups on that? How are sensor and breather pipes attached?
- don't know if the filter Box is original 164 - there is a number on it (AR 6059 4231)
- the intake tube is from SAMCO
- there is a hole in the tube to fix the temperature sensor
- the tubes from the engine breathersare put together with an "Y", which ends up under the car.
don't know if its that good... any comments on that?
thats it

Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Ok, thanks. Here it's illegal to install breathers that wayxaveriusba wrote:sorry, cannot post more pictures - board is full but can explain; it's quite easy installedTamariini wrote:Your intake pipe looks interesting, any closeups on that? How are sensor and breather pipes attached?
- don't know if the filter Box is original 164 - there is a number on it (AR 6059 4231)
- the intake tube is from SAMCO
- there is a hole in the tube to fix the temperature sensor
- the tubes from the engine breathersare put together with an "Y", which ends up under the car.
don't know if its that good... any comments on that?
thats it

--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--
Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Hello guys
I have a problem with my friend's 164 Q4.
4x4 system is working OK, BUT the fluid is pop-off from the reservoir, when the cap is removed. And the oil leek from reservoir when the cap is on place.
The viscomatic system is bleeded, and warning light is off.
The previous owner removed the filter in the fluid tank. Is it possible the reason for the leaking oil to be the missing filter
I have a problem with my friend's 164 Q4.
4x4 system is working OK, BUT the fluid is pop-off from the reservoir, when the cap is removed. And the oil leek from reservoir when the cap is on place.
The viscomatic system is bleeded, and warning light is off.
The previous owner removed the filter in the fluid tank. Is it possible the reason for the leaking oil to be the missing filter
Re: Viscomatic/hydraulic group
Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa !
I forgot all about answering. To be honest, I'm working abroad again, this time for another six weeks, so please remind me in another 6 weeks.
The fact that the oil is gulping out when the cap is removed is what I can recall normal system behaviour.The system is a hipressuresystem and has backpressure as well. It could be very well that the removed filter has a certain dimension and shape that it seals the cap.Maybe one of the othert Q4 drivers can have a look if this is correct.
I bet that Alfist can supply you with a filter, a cap and a reservoir when needed.
Brgds,
Arjen
I forgot all about answering. To be honest, I'm working abroad again, this time for another six weeks, so please remind me in another 6 weeks.
The fact that the oil is gulping out when the cap is removed is what I can recall normal system behaviour.The system is a hipressuresystem and has backpressure as well. It could be very well that the removed filter has a certain dimension and shape that it seals the cap.Maybe one of the othert Q4 drivers can have a look if this is correct.
I bet that Alfist can supply you with a filter, a cap and a reservoir when needed.
Brgds,
Arjen
TD en Q4 owner

