Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

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Artiz1
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by Artiz1 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:04 am

Unfortunately I'm all alone on this one. The only time I asked for help was when I twisted my back and could not get the subframe and engine out of the car. So my brother-in-law and his friend took these out. That was it. That's why it takes so long to do these jobs :(
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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Artiz1
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2014-06-22: Engine...

Post by Artiz1 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:54 pm

Right, today I finished the front end respray:
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It's now so shiny you can actualy see a reflection of pretty much everything :)

And I got my hand on the engine:
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I started by cleaning all the areas where gaskets, covers or any vital parts are touching the block. I.E. like the front timing cover:
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And then cleaned the whole unit:
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Interesting - where it had oil leaks, it's in great condition, however where it had no oil leaks, or some coolant leaks - it's rusty :)

Of course, before painting, I masked up all the vital parts of the engine that would not benefit from paint... :
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ANd covered the engine in the already mentioned blue heat resistant paint:
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Only the first coat and that's it for the day.
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

164 TD
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by 164 TD » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:01 pm

Smurfblue! ;-)
TD en Q4 owner

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Artiz1
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by Artiz1 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:16 pm

Hadn't thought about that :)
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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alfa east
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by alfa east » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:44 am

I am curious how that is going to look when finished. For a marine engine a great colour but for an Alfa road car? There is a Dutch yacht builder who puts the AR 2.4 JTD engine into its boats: http://www.ar-yachts.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but I believe even that one was painted red.

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Artiz1
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by Artiz1 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:58 am

I was thinking about red as well, but IMHO red looks good on powerful engines, like the V6 as it is a more provocative colour. I wanted to go for something that is a bit different but at the same time would be visible when hidden in the engine bay. That's why everything jas been painted in black - to reflect it, as it will be hidden deep inside. Plus I'm thinking of respraying the car in a chameleon (irridescent) black-blueish colour, so a blue engine should be better than red.
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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Artiz1
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2014-06-24: HVAC and wiring

Post by Artiz1 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:12 pm

I love Bank hollidays :) It usually means that I can continue to work in the garage. And so I did. Today I took all the tape off the engine and shoved it out of my way for a moment, as it will not be required for at least three weeks or so:
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The remaining unpainted edges will be touched up when the engine will be in the car again. Same goes for the oil pan (and it's leaking gasket...)

But before I put it for storage, I bought some new studs and replaced them all. It's just a few Euro's plus it's better to change them now, rather than have one snap when I really would need it. However these are plain steel, not stainless (what I originally intended to buy), as I learned that staionless studs are impossible to get in these sizes...
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Next was the A/C box. It's only three 8mm bolts, a few connectors and within 10 minutes (if the false firewall is removed) you can get it out:
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Then the heater motor. That's even easier - unclip both sideclips and the main wire and it's out:
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Is that the heater matirx I see? No way! They say it's the hardest job on these cars (not to mention the third starter bolt on the V6...)

The heater matrix just has to be carefully pulled out - it's not attached to anything:
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Then everything got cleaned as much as possible:
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And coatet in Dinitrol, as this place often tends to collect miusture:
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The cleaning, rubbing, sanding and coating continued on the lower part of the firewall as well, right down to the place where the second part of the exhaust starts. The complete floorpan will be done later, after the front will be assembled:
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While everything dryed, I inspected my heater motor, as there was an extra power wire connected to it directly. The previous ownes said that the heater was stuck so he thought that there was no power so he fed a direct wire to it and lubed it as well. Well the motor works lika a charm, but what I have found faulty was the top flap:
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I'm not sure but I think it directs the air either from the cabin or from the outside. Can anybody confirm this? I will try to fix it as it shouldn't be a problem. However I'm more worried about the padding. It's rotten and sheers at places (same thing on my replacement motor that I got with the car. Perhaps a new sound/heat insulation can be reapplied? Anybody done this before?

After I was done, the rust prevention stuff still was not dry, so I went and cleaned the wishbone reinforcement places:
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Primed and coated them with a first layer of black paint:
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And left them to dry. Dinitrol was dry at that time and I now started to fiddle with the wiring. As most of you know, these cars, when in production, had the most difficult wiring loom out of all cars, even the S class Mercedes was not that much. So I just have to recheck every single wire and connector. And after checking I had to put the new insulation. Here's one section of the wiring checked and with new red insulation:
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That's it for the day. I'm afraid it won't be that quick before I can continue, as the following weekend I will not be able to work on the car, and so the upcoming two weekends as well. So only late July for me then...
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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Artiz1
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2014-07-27: wiring loom

Post by Artiz1 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:40 pm

Ok, so vacation time is over and now back to work. As soon as I came back, I received my package of 10 meters of red conduit, which I won in an auction for 1 GBP! :)
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This, together with various size heat shrinks and PVC tape will contribute to rebuild and redecorate the complete wiring loom:
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As soon as I removed the ABS pump connector, I noticed why (most likelly) my ABS light was on:
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This will have to be cleaned and inspected later.

During this weekend I only managed to complete what I think would be 1/3 of the front end's wiring only. However during the process I already used around 50 m of tape, 10 m of heat shrinks and a few meters of conduit:
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And of course the regullar scrubbing, priming and painting of various parts continued:
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That's it for this week.
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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Alfan
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by Alfan » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:06 am

I hope you had a nice vacation - glad to see that you are back 'at work' :wink:
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 65kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 195kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 100kkm

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Artiz1
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2014-08-03 Wiring loom done!

Post by Artiz1 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:10 pm

What seemed to be easy, really wasn't - it's defo the most complicated wiring loom in any car up to date (modern cars use CAN-BUS network now to connect components which simplifies the wiring).
So here is the complete wiring redone in red:
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And here's the detachable engine specific (in my case for the 2.5TD) part:
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Surprisingly, 99 percent of all wires were in perfect condition! There were only a few (4 or 5 in total) wires that needed a bit of resoldering and some extra protection. All of these were close to the engine, so most likely heat took it's toll on them. Apart from that, I can say that the wiring has been done with greatest care on these cars. Wires are thick (not like on older alfas, like 75 or 33), connectors are modern and have rubber protection on most of them. For these reasons, I constantly keep falling even more and more in love with the 164... :)
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

164 TD
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by 164 TD » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:05 pm

I'm impressed by the wiring as well; excellent connectors and plugs!
TD en Q4 owner

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2014-08-11: Alfa 164 engine mount replacement

Post by Artiz1 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:02 pm

Right. Today I've managed to do something very interesting and hopefuly helpful for other 164 owners! I've successfuly replaced the original front engine mount with one from a Ford Escort :) Since an OE mount costs around 200 Eur locally, I tried to search for a decent solution. I know that a lot of 164 owners replace their front mounts with a Saab unit (which costs around 90 Eur), but this idea did not sound too tempting for me since the Saab mount is a rubber unit, instead of hydroelastic one found in our cars. So I went into my locat car part shop, asked for an engine mount catalogue and started browsing it. I fount a ~'96 Ford Escort 1.8TD engine mount that seemed to be nearly identical to ours, at a fraction of a cost - 25 Eur to be precise :) Most importantly - it's hydroelastic, which is very important for a diesel - I want to keep those vibrations to a minimum... I compared it to the OE mount and this is what they look like:
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Obviously the locating pin is on the wrong side, and it has got some kind of a metal plate on top. The stud is M11 x1.5 instead of M10x1.25 and the mounting holes are in total about 0.5 cm closer to each other on each side.

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It is also a bit shorter, but that is the least of a worrie, since it is mounted on it's plate anyway... Howerer the hight from the mounting bracket is much lower than on the OE unit.

So, my idea was to mount it on some kind of a plate, that would be bolted to the original mounting points on the subframe. This plate would serve as a mount hight raiser and would eliminate the need of destroying the original bolt holes in the subframe (I do want to be able to fit an OE mount at some later point of the car's life).
So I made a drawing replicating the metal surrount that is welded on to the subframe and went into a local waterjet cutting company. By using these cool waterjets wthey cut two identical plates out of 10mm aluminium for me for 10 Eur:
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Since I did not yet know the exact hight required, I made two such plates, even though in reality I only needed one.

Since the Ford mount was shorter plus would be raised, I needed to insert some kind of a cushion into the bottom of the mount hole. I had 5mm thich rubber in my garage, so I cut 4 round plates (as I needed roughly about 2cm of cushioning:
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Then I drilled the holes for the OE bolts, measured the required Ford mount's center point location, located where it should be attached, drilled some more holes for it to be attached, primed and painted the plate.

Now the Ford mount's modification:
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Small cutouts on the sides for OE washer clearance, stud modified to be M10x1,25, extra metal plate and all studs removed and that's it!

Here is the finished thing:
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I guess apart from those two extra bolts, if I haven't told you, noone would notice the difference! :)

Ah yes, last week I also bought new anti roll bar bushes (as they will be needed really soon), ordered to custom make a new power steering fluid cooler and new front end brake lines:
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The cooler was painted in red thermal paint and imediatly installed:
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And the last job for the day was to mount the engine together with the anti roll bar to the subframe and place it under the engine bay to be ready for lifting and connecting:
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I hope to bolt it on tho the chassis on wednesday evening.
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

164 TD
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by 164 TD » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:41 am

You are completely redesigning the 164! Keep those stories coming!
TD en Q4 owner

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Artiz1
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2014-08-24: work continues

Post by Artiz1 » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:21 pm

Ok, so after 2.5 months, the engine is back where it belongs - on the frame and in the car. I also cleaned and painted the fule pump, which you can see in this picture:
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Just that I did not tighten it in place yet, as I could not find a new fuel pump gasket anywhere locally. Despite the fact that this engine is pretty common in Chrysler voyagers, there wasn't a single shop that had one in stock or could order one. But since it was (as usal) a weekend, I could not continue with it. So I just left it for the time being.

While I was at it, I installed the right wishbone (left one still needs cleaning and painting) to hold the subframe in place:
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I also got my hands on tidying the brake vacuum booster:
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And the gear levers (at the end I decided to go for a manual, for a few reasons, which I will writte later):
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Since my work with the front engine end was done for that day, I started working on the rear end and went to replace the rear oil seal. I tried to pull it out and to my surprize, I pulled out the complete rear plate!:
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But that was a good thing, because the seal is a nightmare to take out. Even when using a puller tool - it was glued in place...

And here is a view of the crankshaft and the connecting rod:
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Eventually I was very happy that I pulled the rear plate out. It seems that it has a thin O ring around it, that has a very important rolle - acting as a main oil seal (the actual oil seal is not that important). As soon as I removed it, it just fell apart, as it was hard and felt like plastic. Now obviously nobody will have these things in stock and my local Alfa dealer charges a fortune for these...

However, lucky for me, I work with leisure boats and yachts. We are a Mercury marine product dealer. And Mercury has an inboard engine division - the famous Mercuiser. Since the diesel engine popullarity has grown a lot recently, Mercury has bought some Cummins engines and rebranded them as Mercury-Cummins diesel. These mostly are 4,5 and 6 cylinder engines that are used in a lot of new boats. Guess who'se engine is it? :) Yes, that's right - a lot of customers get surprized when I say "your boat has an Alfa Romeo engine!" :) Well technically it's a VM, but we all know, that this particullar engine was designed for the 164 and only later was used everywhere else, including up to date boats by Mercury (Mercuiser) AND (discontinued in around 2000 I think) ... BMW marine! Yes, you can proudly say that BMW has used Alfa engines as well, the same VM engine.
Anyway, this morning I ordered the required gaskets in total for a few Euros (compared to an insane Alfa dealer's price) from Brunswick-Mercury marine in Belgium. They will arrive on thursday or latest on friday and I will post some pictures of them compared with my old ones just to prove my point - that our engines still live today :)
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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Artiz1
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by Artiz1 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:06 pm

Hello fellow Alfisti! Long time no see. Sorry, I was a bit busy with some other stuff, one of which was a nwe car for my wife to learn driving in - I was searching for a cheap 4 door diesel to buy locally, and since I am cursed with these italian cars, to my surprise, the best deal for me was a black 1999 146 which was just round the corner from where I live :) I really was not searching for an alfa this time, but for some reason I bought it... So I had to spend some time in order to get it to a more or less good condition, so my main project was on hold.
Anyway, I got the parts from Brunswick-Mercury marine:
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Most of them even had labels stating "Made in italy" :)

So the work continued - I installed the new oil seal and the O ring on the rear crankshaft carrier:
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And installed it as well as the back plate:
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One thing I did not do accrding to the manual - I did not measure the crankshaft float. As I don't have the special tools for it and after speaking to some experts - everybody said that these engines usually don't need the thrust bearings to be replaced. Therefore I will take a rsik this time...

Next. I purchase that I did not plan at all (at the moment), bust since these popped up for an unbelievable low price (just a bit over 100 Eur for a full set) I just had to buy these:
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8.5JxR18, German "Brock". Only in spring I will try to think of what to do with them - leave them in chrome or paint the mid section in black and only leave the outer bezel in chrome or anything else. In the mean time, "rims - checklist complete!" :)

Next, the long search for a OE 2.5TD gearbox has come to an end (hopefully) - for 43 Eur I got this piece of gold:
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Well it's not exactly gold, but to me it is :)

And after some 3 hours of elbow grease, 1L of brake cleaner and half of bucket of grime it looked like this:
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Again, first coat of "smurf blue" applied:
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I did not do this paint job too detail, because IMHO the gerbox on Italian cars does not last that long, which means that it may be that the paint will last longer than the box itself...
I just hope it's really from a diesel. I will try to count the revolutions from the input and output shafts next week to confirm.
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

164EVER
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by 164EVER » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:42 pm

ASTONISHING ! :shock:
Great pride when it will be finished. :wink:
Good luck and courage.
Thanks for posting, we wait for the next to come.
I had much less work on mine, actually I'm waiting for the heads to come back from pressure check.
164 3.0 V6 1988 330000KM
164 2.0 TS 1989 243000KM
164 SUPER 2.5 TD 1993 308000KM
156 1.8 TS 2001 165000KM.
EX : 33 SW 1.5, 1.3 ie, 1.5 ie, 33 1.7 QV 16V, GIULIETTA 116 1.6, ALFA 6 2.5 (X3), 146 boxer 1.6 , 164 SUPER 2.0 TS.

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Artiz1
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by Artiz1 » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:59 pm

Thanks!
I just do hope to get everything what I have planned to be done untill the upcoming summer...
Anyway, I've counted the revolutions of both gearboxes and have confirmed, that my "new" gearbox is from a diesel and double confirmed, that the "old" one was from a pertol car. When in 5th gear, to turn the wheel a full revolution, the "old" gearbox's input shaft had to be turned 2.75 (roughtly) times, however the "new" gearbox does this only in 2.5 revolutions. Now multiply this by thousand and you already have a 250 RPM difference at same speed in same gear. Then there's the first gear, which on the diesel box is shorter than on the petrol unit, which again as as supposed to be (to eliminate the turbo lag issue). So all seems to be good and I can now sleep well :)

My yesterday's work involved swapping over the shift rods and adding some extra parts that my "new" gearbox did not have:
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On the left you can see the original diesel's shift rod. On the right - everything that had to be installed into the "new" gearbox. Everything was cleaned, degreased and then greased again with new grease (where needed) and installed.

An hour or so later:
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Next I've checked the timing and tightened the fule pump and it's gear. But in the mean time I have painted the timing cover:
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Since I could not get a new one (mine is a bit damaged at the crankshaft seal area), I had to repair the old one a bit. I just hope it won't leak...

And here we have the set up timing:
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Interestingly, at some point in the car's life someone had a go at the timing marks. The middle gear does not align with the crankshaft and the camshaft by two teeth. But since just the marks are misplaced (thankfully not the timing) I left it like that because I really did not want to fiddle with them gears.

And my last job for the day was to align and install the clutch:
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Next week - transmission installation time :)
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

164EVER
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Location: france, allier

Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by 164EVER » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:29 pm

You made a good choice with the 146 , it's a pretty car. I had one with the boxer engine.
164 3.0 V6 1988 330000KM
164 2.0 TS 1989 243000KM
164 SUPER 2.5 TD 1993 308000KM
156 1.8 TS 2001 165000KM.
EX : 33 SW 1.5, 1.3 ie, 1.5 ie, 33 1.7 QV 16V, GIULIETTA 116 1.6, ALFA 6 2.5 (X3), 146 boxer 1.6 , 164 SUPER 2.0 TS.

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Artiz1
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by Artiz1 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:58 pm

Thanks! :) As I said, the 146 was an unplanned purchase :) But it already had paid off. Up to date I have done over 4000 km's in it and despite the fact of some minor issues (exhaust needs to be repositioned, the heater resistor needs to be replaced, the wipers sometimes don't work on an intermediate position, the rear window defrost does not work at all, as well as the rear wiper etc...) it's fuel consumption is something out of this world! It's partially due to me owning loads of different V6 cars in the past... That's why I'm looking forward to complete my 164 project as soon as possible :)
And unfortunately it is not going that fast I would like it to. LAst week was my daughters second birthday so our small family went to the capital and spend there the weekend and a few workdays. To my surprize, one day, there was a small time gap of an hour or so while the little one was asleep in the car. We were in the middle of the town withour really having anywhere to go untill she get's up, so I remembered an old fellow of mine, who had an italian car sercive and scrap yard not far away from our location. My goal was to obtain a gearbox shifter cover, which my both gearboxes did not have and most importantly - a folding mirror control unit, that I missed out on in spring.
Half an hour later (oh, and after spending some 58 Eur) I got the plastic cover, then the control unit:
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And something I really did not plan to buy now, but since it was in such a good shape I just could not refuse:
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Yes, the rear subframe! With virtually no rust! All this for 58 Eur! A bargain!

Oh, last week I also managed to pick up my new custom made stainless steel exhaust downpipe from my welder:
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He gave it to me for a test fit (the welds have yet not been polished). Might be that next week I will have a fully finished product, which will last for years.

Today I continued on the assembly and did not complete anything decently :(
I started by installing the steering rack. All would have been well except the fact that I just can't seem to get the steering wheel's shaft connected to the rack. How on earth do you get those things connected? There's no place for hamering, there's no place for propper force. As soon as you apply some, it just slips out...
So I left it until next time and got the gearbox in position. That did not go so well either. Again, for some reason it was very hard to get the input shaft inserted into the clutch disc...
Maybe today was just not my lucky day :( I hope to have better luck next week...
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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alfa east
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by alfa east » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:29 am

Nice treasure trove at the Italian car service place. That subframe looks very good indeed.

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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by JDqv » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:06 pm

You lucky bastard :D that rear sub frame looks mint! I deliberately don't look at mine, because I know what to expect and I'm keeping this problem till after I finish front end. I'm still searching with one eye for scraped Lancia Thema or Fiat Croma, just to get that sucker.

I bolted on my steering rack just last week. I didn't disconnect steering shaft so my rack hang on body side when I lowered sub frame, so "all I had to do" was bolt it back to frame. It wasn't super easy, but doable. I remember thinking - next time I'll disconnect it from steering shaft and it will be easier. Looks like its not a good idea at all.
________
Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V 1994 (WIP)
Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 12V 1993 (donor)
Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 12V 1995 (donor)
Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 TS 1994 (donor)

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Artiz1
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Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by Artiz1 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:25 pm

Yeah this was exactly the case with my subframe - I did not yet do anything with it as I'm fiddling with the front end, but since I found it - I bought it.
By the way, if one from a Thema would suit your needs, the guy I bought mine from had one from a Thema in same state. Just let me know if you need it :)
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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Artiz1
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Change of plan - new engine

Post by Artiz1 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:24 pm

Hell everyone!
Long time since I last updated anything on my proect. It's because I haven't touched it during that time at all... Too much work with everything else, so really did not have any spare time.
Anyway, as the topic sugests - there has been a majo0r change of the restoration plan - in march I have found a daily driver that suits my my family's needs and most likelly will do that for the upcoming few years. It's not italian, but I may asure you - it's not german as well :) So because of this reason, the 164 may now become a true dream car that I want - it may finally receive a pertol engine!
But which one?
And here I need your help - right now in Lithuania it is possible to get hold of pretty much ANY engine there was ever stuffed into the 164 for the price of next to nothing. So now I just need to decide - which one. I'm stuck in between selecting either the old 3.0L 12V or the 2.0L V6 turbo. I had a 164 with the 12V and I really loved it. I loved it more than the 24V 166 I had. But before these cars I also had a 2.0L V6 turbo 166, which was not that bad as well. And this now leaves me confused - both engines have their own pros and cons and both are rare as a needle in a hay stack.
Guys, what's your opinion - what should I go for?

P.S. since the VM diesel is not required anymore, I may as well offer it's spares for anyone who needs anything. I may as well post up a seperate thread about this.
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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JDqv
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:17 am

Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by JDqv » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:58 pm

Hi,
in my opinion its very costly and unnecessary complicated to convert diesel model to petrol. You'll need ... hmm, a whole donor car. Everything is different (in my opinion). All wiring, engine, gearbox, brakes (?), fuel lines, gas tank, instrument panel, ecu, shafts maybe gear knob assembly (don't really know), pumps, fuel filters, cooling, engine mounts, exhaust sensors, exhaust manifolds and so on. Not to mention all the maintenance things you'll have to do for your donor engine itself.
Plus, I don't know how it is in LT, but in LV you have to go through special process to register such build, so nobody really does that.

That being said, I don't know much about that diesel. But for sure, there's a lot to take in consideration, more than meets the eye at first.

I would say go for 3.0 24v, but... I don't know. Its cheaper and more reasonable to get a new petrol car in my opinion. Think about this, you'll have a v6 with diesel ZAR :roll: :mrgreen:
________
Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V 1994 (WIP)
Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 12V 1993 (donor)
Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 12V 1995 (donor)
Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 TS 1994 (donor)

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Artiz1
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:55 pm

Re: Bringing back a 164 2.5 TD to life

Post by Artiz1 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:00 pm

I would agree with you on a "normal" car. But the 164 is a bit different in this particular case:

"Everything is different (in my opinion). All wiring, engine, gearbox, brakes (?), fuel lines, gas tank, instrument panel, ecu, shafts maybe gear knob assembly (don't really know), pumps, fuel filters, cooling, engine mounts, exhaust sensors, exhaust manifolds and so on. Not to mention all the maintenance things you'll have to do for your donor engine itself. "
Wiring - only the part from the firewall, which is plug and play;
Engine and gearbox - well that's obvious;
Brakes - no, the later diesels are identical to the V6;
Fuel lines, tank and filter - tank and lines are the same, just the filter differs - petrols have it in the rear, whereas the diesel has it only in the engine. After conversion an external filter would be required wich is easy to add;
ECU anf instrument panel - will be taken from the donor along eith engine and wiring;
Shafts and gear linkage - identical (remember, I was the one that found a petrol gearbox on my diesel? :) );
Engine mounts - for some reason Alfa used the same mounts on diesels and petrols...
Pumps, cooling, exhaust - well that will be different but I don't see too much trouble of making them fit or modifying :)
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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