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Saab 9000 TQ4

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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby RickyManfred » Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:32 pm

I've got most parts at least, still missing the intermediate shaft between gearbox and right side drive shaft, that's the most critical part I'm missing right now, got a price for one in February but the guy selling it never seems to find time to remove it from the car.

I'm not sure what you mean by link to the rear? If you mean the whole rear suspension assembly I have it almost sorted but I will fit the engine/gearbox package first to see where the cardan shaft ends up, if I move the gearbox forward I will keep track of by how much and then make a spacer at either the gearbox or the viscomatic.
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby RickyManfred » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:06 pm

Been working on my adapter plate for a few days now. Right now I'm using a piece of polycarbonate as a template because it's transparent and easy to cut, another good reason was that I got it for free from our local glazier, its a part of a window from a tractor :D
I started by cnc-milling a center that would fit the crank on the car, then made a sleeve that would fit tightly around the splines of the gearbox input shaft, mounted the plate and drilled/tapped all through holes. Now I'm doing the threaded holes using stop screws that I have machined to be completely sharp and as centered as possible. No picture of those yet but I think you get it. Ive also made some shafts to measure where the intermediate shaft will end up, and luckily it seems that the distance between gearbox input shaft and the drive shafts is exactly (not 100% sure yet) the same on this alfa gearbox and the Saab/GM gearbox.

Some photos
IMG_1951.JPG

IMG_1961.JPG

IMG_1960.JPG
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby alfa east » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:13 am

Terrific! I enjoy reading about your project. Keep it coming please!
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby Alfan » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:25 pm

Very interesting and a nice way of investigating what to do :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby RickyManfred » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:11 pm

Yesterday I did some field studies on Italian hardware 8)

IMG_1979.JPG
Me after test drive


My polycarbonate mockup is almost ready but before I start cutting, milling and drilling the real thing I want some more measurements. So I took the one half of my other Q4 gearbox and placed it on the table of a milling machine we have at work and used the CNC touch probe functions, I have an electronic probe but I find using a normal 3D-taster more efficient, at least on this machine, the probe cycles can still be used by pushing the teach in button on the control when the probe is at the desired position. Here i just measured circular centers and just monitored the X,Y coordinates. Never mind the radius in the photos, it's compensated for the 12mm end mill the control still thinks is loaded.

IMG_1985.JPG
Measuring location of the drive shaft position relative to the input shaft

IMG_1986.JPG
Measurement results (SLUT is not what you think, it means END in Swedish)


I also measured the positions of the locating pins, no photos of that but I guess you get it anyway. When I'm done I can present a drawing with all measurements instead but I have some more measurements to do before I'm done.
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby Alfan » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:10 pm

RickyManfred wrote:Yesterday I did some field studies on Italian hardware 8)


So maybe you also want to have an original Q4? :wink:

The proper tools really makes a difference! Really interesting to follow your work and I hope to see the end result in real life some day :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby alfa east » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:17 am

RickyManfred wrote: (SLUT is not what you think, it means END in Swedish)

Useful tidbit of information when brushing up on my holiday-Swedish!
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby RickyManfred » Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:43 pm

Measured up the engine side yesterday, not as many holes but the block was to long for the mill I used, luckily this type of mill has a tillable spindle head, so I measured it in ZX-plane instead. I also measured the distance between crank and driveshaft support bearing, luckily it was exactly the same as on the gearbox :mrgreen:

IMG_2101.JPG
Measuring driveshaft support bearing


IMG_2123.JPG


Then I took all measurements, first from the gearbox. Then I added all holes from the engine and rotated it to the point where both measurements from the drive shaft lined up. If anyone wants to use it to get the measurements for either the motor or the gearbox, go ahead, but I have not verified that all measurements are correct yet.

Adapter Getrag 282 AWD Saab B234.pdf
My drawing so far
(42.67 KiB) Downloaded 80 times
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby RickyManfred » Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:53 pm

Alfan wrote:So maybe you also want to have an original Q4? :wink:

Actually, here in Sweden there's a site called blocket.se. I have in my profile on that site a notification if any 164Q4's are up for sale :wink:

alfa east wrote:Useful tidbit of information when brushing up on my holiday-Swedish!

You're Welcome :lol:
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby RickyManfred » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:11 pm

Today I have tried with the complete engine/gearbox package in the car. I had already modified the subframe with a cutout for the rear axle output, this will be boxed later. Some grinding of the subframe was required but now it fits, but it's tight. The whole package is higher at the gearbox side so I'll have to fabricate a lower gearbox bushing but that shouldn't be very difficult, should give me some more clearance around the subframe as well. Not sure where to find room for a 3" exhaust yet :lol:

IMG_2145.JPG

IMG_2141.JPG

IMG_2142.JPG
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby 164 TD » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:42 pm

Awesome project!
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby Alfan » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:07 pm

Not that much work left ;)

Thanks for posting the progress, still very interesting!
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby RickyManfred » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:52 pm

I have now started making that adapter from drawing, Yesterday evening I spent at work making a first test piece from what I had left of the polycarbonate sheet.

IMG_2191.JPG
Milling

IMG_2192.JPG
Milling done

IMG_2193.JPG
Finished part


Test fitted it today, all holes are in the right place but the cutout for the driveshaft was a very tight fit, changed the drawing now to add an extra mm to the radius there. I also made the two bigger holes (12.4mm) in the top right corner countersunk on the wrong side. But apart from that it all fit. Back to work soon to make the real one from a sheet of 6082-T6 aluminum.
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby RickyManfred » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:19 pm

And here is the finished adapter.
IMG_2194.JPG
First holes done

IMG_2196.JPG
All holes and inner contour done

IMG_2199.JPG
Last step is cutting the outer contour.

IMG_2200.JPG
Finished adapter, this side is towards the engine.

IMG_2201.JPG
And this side towards the gearbox.
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby RickyManfred » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:22 pm

With the gearbox in place I can now measure exactly where the cardan shaft and Viscomatic will be located.
Attachments
IMG_2213.JPG
IMG_2212.JPG
IMG_2210.JPG
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby Alfan » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:06 pm

Yet another 'Great work' from my side :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby wilco » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:22 pm

didn't read it, but keep in mind that the subfframe of a Q4 is also different.
Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby RickyManfred » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:54 am

Hi Wilco

I'm aware of that but I'm using a modified Saab subframe instead, you can see my mods in my post from October 16.
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Re: Saab 9000 TQ4

Postby RickyManfred » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:26 pm

I planned to get some work done when I had a short holiday now between Christmas and New Year but instead I had a seriuos case of man flu to deal with, and now I'm back at work again.

But I managed to get the rear wheel spindles finished at least, rust removed by electrolysis bath, painted with 2 component epoxy paint and new bearings and hubs fitted.

IMG_2289.JPG
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