164 Q4 1994

Post here your project, keep us all informed about the progress.
164 TD
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by 164 TD » Sat May 05, 2012 7:31 pm

Is it resetable? try to run the reset routine ;-) (with the ignition on..)
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Sat May 05, 2012 8:39 pm

I did that, Arjen - still the same error codes as reported
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3.0 V24 Q4 1994

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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by 164 TD » Sun May 06, 2012 11:15 am

The error code which I got before dismantling the airbag capsule from the wheel was:
21 (0x15)
68 (0x44)

Now after reconnecting the airbag capsule I get
21 (0x15)
4 (0x04)

What is the difference between 68 and 4?
0x0a Sensor signal/power fault
0x0b Left-hand sensor
0x0c Right-hand sensor
0x1e Warning light
0x15 Steering wheel squib
0x16 Passenger side A squib
0x17 Passenger side B squib

So 0x14 is near the 0x15/0x16/0x17 group, but unclear what device this is.

Second byte seems to follow the table in the Fiat-9141 document. Error type is the least significant 5 bits of the second byte. Bit 6 set to 1 means "error present". When bit 6 is zero, error is not present.

01 Open circuit
02 Short to ground
03 Short to battery
04 Open circuit/short to ground
05 Open circuit/short to battery
06 Too low value
07 Too high value
08 Constant value
09 Plausibility

Typical second byte codes are 0x44 (open circuit/short to ground, currently
present). If the problem is fixed, the code changes to 0x04.
Fist bitecode is the failing device; the airbag squib; the second bitecode 0x04 should indicate problem is fixed and a reset routine should extinguish the light.
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Sun May 06, 2012 3:33 pm

The good news:
after issueing the reset command twice, the zero-error code came and the airbag light was gone.
Why it took two commands is misterious.
But the light is gone - heureka Image

Many thanks, Arjen, for your help, patience and your written procedure.
I'll post a separate thankyou to Demtey in the US-Forum.
Helli
3.0 V24 Q4 1994

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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by 164 TD » Sun May 06, 2012 6:41 pm

I remember the feeling when my light finally got out after a lot of struggeling; boy, was I smiling!!
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Sun May 06, 2012 7:45 pm

Next in line in my project is the ABS.

I am still in the dark concerning the Flashing Light Diagnosis with the Q4 ABS.

As I understand the 164 model history, from 1993 to 1994 was the period with many new introductions.
This matches my reading results, that the English Q4 Product Bulletin from Okt. 1993 contains the Flashing code diagnosis, but the German Q4 Manual from Feb. 1994 does not.
----------------
I repeat my case here:
(1) When I turn on the ignition, the ABS warning light comes on and stays constant, no blinking, with or without enging running and car stationary or moving. It just never blinks.

(2) I connected the Light-Blue wire of the Test connector (with ignition off)
- to the black wire
- directly to ground
When turning on the ignition, the warning light comes on, without blinking.

Of course I will not exclude the possibility that I have made an error so far (I have made too many already to be sure of myself).
--------------------------
But I have not yet received a confirmation from a Q4 (vintage 1994) owner, that he used this diagnosis tool successfully.
I would be very pleased to get one, before I continue struggling
Helli
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by 164 TD » Mon May 07, 2012 9:06 am

I copied your ABS question to a new topic for easier search lateron.....
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Alfan » Mon May 07, 2012 8:05 pm

Helli, I can't remember if you established which ABS version is in your car, 2Si or 5.3i? I can see from your pictures of the airbag that your car has the 'facelifted' steering wheel, so maybe it is 5.3i and that I don't think can be diagnosed manually...
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 65kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 195kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 100kkm

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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Mon May 07, 2012 9:45 pm

Alfan wrote:Helli, I can't remember if you established which ABS version is in your car, 2Si or 5.3i?
No, I have not.

How/where do I see, which ABS version is in the car?
164 TD wrote:I copied your ABS question to a new topic for easier search lateron.....
Thanks for your effort. I have read it and will proceed accordingly tomorrow. Report follows there

Helli
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Alfan
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Alfan » Tue May 08, 2012 8:05 am

I think the 5.3i unit is smaller from pictures I have seen. I can't find those right now, but if you take a picture of the unit in your car I can compare with the one in mine, which is 2Si.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 65kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 195kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 100kkm

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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Tue May 08, 2012 2:39 pm

Alfan wrote:but if you take a picture of the unit in your car I can compare with the one in mine, which is 2Si.
When I was working on the ABS, the only relevant picture I made is the one below, but I am afraid it won't tell you much

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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Tue May 08, 2012 5:09 pm

Thanks to Arjen's detailed coaching the ABS system is back in operation and the malfunction light at the instrumen panel is gone.
The whole problem was a loose connector (G273).

Now the error code diagnostics is working too and the result is failure code 37 => => which seems to be
..............."Faulty Brake Switch H3"

Strange that this does not generate a failure light on the instrument panel.

I guess I have to do the manual tests of D (in the manual)
Helli
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Mon May 14, 2012 7:48 pm

A great sight for my sore eyes:
................................All malfunction lights (4x4, Airbag, ABS) are out and gone... :D

Summary:
In all 3 cases it was a connector fault.

Airbag The squib-connector was not connected.
The shop of the previous owner got the light, checked everything, but were not able to reset the light with their Marelli tester.
Therefore they disconnected the squib for precautionary reasons.
I found that, reconnected it and with the help of Dimtey's/Arjen's little Ubuntu diagnostic tool I could reset the light and now all is well.
Viscomatic (4x4)
Since April I have a Marelli Tester and last Friday I got the Viscomatic Module MA12A/F (French). Both worked on the first try.
The message was "Anomalies 01/01, Signal Press. hydraulique, Niveau Signal trop bas, present."
The Viscomatic Oil Pressure Sensor L56 gave no signal.
I checked the connector for L56 again. It is the one in the rear of the hydraulic block, kind of difficult to get at. I had checked it before but it seems that with my arthritic fingers I had not pushed it properly in place.
This time I did and now all is well (I still have to test the 4x4 function the "Tamariini way" :wink: )
ABS
This I have reported already below and in the "Technical" section.
The bigger of the two ABS connectors (G273)had jumped out ot the fixing clamp and was loose.
This was noticable only after removal of the air intake manifold.
Now I am waiting for some rain and slippery roads to test the ABS function.

I want to repeat: I started as a 164 rooky and it was primarily the infos from all you guys who patiently helped me along my stumbling path. And for this I want to express my sincere appreciation and gratefulness.
But the project is not over yet (see my next posting). So please stay on board :)
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by alfa east » Tue May 15, 2012 9:57 am

I don't have a Q4 and very little technical knowledge, but it's inspiring to read nevertheless. And in the meantime, a wealth of knowledge is accumulated on the site. Kudos!

164 TD
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by 164 TD » Tue May 15, 2012 11:44 am

Good to hear we have another Happy Camper !

Glad to hear that you liked your own exploration and thanks for challenging us as well.

What Q4 related modules do you have for the Alfatester?
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Tue May 15, 2012 12:49 pm

164 TD wrote:What Q4 related modules do you have for the Alfatester?
the M3A for the SCS, the MA10A for Motronic 3.7 and the MA12A for the Viscomatic
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Mon May 21, 2012 10:21 pm

Having solved the malfunction signal problems the project is not over yet.
Two areas remain on the agenda.

(1) Solution of the Riddle of ABS flashing code "37", which is treated in the technical section

(2) Re-building the air conditioning system.

The previous owner had a faulty compressor and removed it from the engine.
I have now got a brand new compressor, which I will put back in place, connect it to the system and fill it with coolant.
Since I have not done this before, I presently collect all relevant drawings and descriptions which I need for this task.
I will follow with further reports.
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wilco
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by wilco » Tue May 22, 2012 5:19 am

what do you want to know?..

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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Tue May 22, 2012 8:21 am

wilco wrote:what do you want to know?..
(1) a lot of evidence points to the fact that my Q4 is the old version.
But why do I get the ABS error code 37?
If the break switch is really faulty I should get code 19.

(2) I personally did not remove the old compressor. Therefore I have no experience, what belongs where. For this I have to rely on drawings and explanations. Any lack in this area will surface when I do the work in the next days. :D
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Sat May 26, 2012 1:14 pm

The riddle of the ABS error code #37 is not solved.

But for the project this work point (1) discussed before is finished as described in the Technical Section under " Q4-ABS light on".

Next week: Point (2) - installation of the new Air Condition compressor :D
Helli
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by 164 TD » Sat May 26, 2012 8:56 pm

When installing the aircon compressor, check your lineout; factorystandard the compressor was misaligned and 2 extra rings needed to be installed in order to lineout properly.
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Sun May 27, 2012 1:53 pm

Thanks Arjen for the hint, I will heed it!
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wilco
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by wilco » Sun May 27, 2012 3:34 pm

if they removed the compressor, did they put in a free running wheel ? if so, then you also need the correct brackets to hang it on.

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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by Helli » Mon May 28, 2012 6:33 pm

wilco wrote:if they removed the compressor, did they put in a free running wheel ? if so, then you also need the correct brackets to hang it on.
- The bracket is still there - see below - green arrow
- They took one wheel off - yellow arrow
- The other wheel is still in - red arrow

Image

The next picture shows, what lies to the right, namely again the red arrow wheel and the wheel of the Generator - blue arrow.

Image

All this corresponds pretty well with the figure below, which I took from the Technical Service Bulletin 01.94.08 of 12/5/94 "Replacing the Poly-V Belt (All 164 24 valve Engines)"

Image

The Poly-V Belt looks very new, therefore I think I will not have to replace it.

Tomorrow I will put the car up and see, what surprises are lying in ambush :roll:
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Re: 164 Q4 1994

Post by wilco » Tue May 29, 2012 5:19 am

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