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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby 164 TD » Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:54 pm

I bought 2 viscomatic modules from the guy in germany, he is able to burn them. All you need than is a tester.

There is an interconnect between ABS and viscomatic; the 4 ABS wheelspeedsignals are given to the viscocomputer...
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:39 pm

Have a picture off the tester so I can know if I found the right one or are they different models?
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby 164 TD » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:57 am

Alfa, Fiat,Lancia, Ferrari and Iveco all used the same tester. The only difference was the placard on the frontface. The modules and a 101adt adapter make the function of the tester. The tester is also known as the Magneti Marelli tester.
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby alfa east » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:02 am

They are offered on Ebay occasionally. Here is one without cable (from USA):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Lancia-T ... 3a89281670
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby alfa east » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:07 am

This bidding has ended but shows some accessories:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Lancia-M ... 7675.l2557
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby 164 TD » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:39 pm

And so is one in Holland, but only with Fiat Lancia modules, so you will need another 100 euros to burn a good set of usefull modules

Tester


Modules
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:01 pm

I have ordered a new backbox now.
212euro incl shipping. Cheaper then ebay
http://www.daparto.de/
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:24 pm

164 TD wrote:I bought 2 viscomatic modules from the guy in germany, he is able to burn them. All you need than is a tester.


Do you have an email to this guy? :)
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby 164 TD » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:48 am

timley.at.gmx.dot.de

The modules he's offering are below:


menu in german (D):

MA1B, Bosch Motronic ML 4.1/ L-Jetronic L 3.2 ; Alfa 164/75/33/Spider
MF1A, Marelli IAW 04F.07 ; Ferrari F40 ohne Kat
MF1B, Marelli IAW 04F.07, 04F/40, 04F/50 ; Ferrari F40 mit Kat
M1C, Marelli Weber, SPI-GM ; Fiat Croma/Tipo
MA2A, Bosch ABS 2E/2K ; Alfa 33/145/155
MF2A, Bilstein Fahrwerk B46-779 ; Ferrari Mondial t
MF2B, Klima, Bilstein B46-779, MED120 B/D, BoschKE-Jetronic ; Ferrari 348, Mondial t, Testarossa
M2A, ; ?
M2B, Marelli Weber Digiplex 2, Microplex, Zündanlage Lancia Thema 8.32
mit Steuergeräte Nr. 0280 800 225 ; Fiat Uno/Tipo/Tempra/Thema 8.32
MA3A, SCS-Fahrwerk Permanent 4/Q4/4X4 ; Alfa 164Q4 Super / 33 P4, Q4
MF3A, Bosch Motronic M 2.7 ; Ferrari 348/Mondial T
M3A, ; ?
M3B, Bosch Monojetronic ; Fiat Panda
MA4A, Bosch Motronic M 1.7; Bosch Motronic M 1.7 ; Alfa 164 Super/155
M4B, SCS-Fahrwerk ; Alfa 164 Super/155
MA5A, Marelli Weber IAW 8F.68 Boxer 1.4 IEL ; Alfa 33
MF5A, Bosch Motronic M 2.7 ; Ferrari 512 TR
MA6B, Bosch Motronic ML 4.1 V6TB mit /EZ212K, Motronic M 1.7 mit Alfa Code; Alfa 164/155/GTV Fiat Croma
M6B, Marelli Weber USA´83 ; Fiat Croma/Tempra/Tipo
MA7A, Bosch ABS 2S Hybrid ; Alfa 164 Super
M7A, Girling ABS 2/2 ; Fiat Tipo/Tempra/Dedra
MA8A, Marelli Weber ; Alfa 155Q4
M8A, ECVT Automatikgetriebe ; Fiat Panda
M8B, Fuji ECVT 821 u. MX665 Automatikgetriebe ; Fiat Panda, Y10, Punto Selectra
MA9A, Airbag (Siemens) ; Alfa 164Q4 Super
MA10A, Bosch Motronic M 3.7 u. MP3.1 ; Alfa164Q4 / 33 1.7/145 1.6
M10A, Automatik-Getriebe VW AG4 ; Fiat Tipo/Tempra/Dedra
M11A, EGR Diesel ; Fiat Ducato/Tempra/Tipo
M11B, EGR Diesel ; Fiat Ducato/Croma/Alfa 145,146 TD
MA12A, Viscomatic 164Q4 (Steyr) ; Alfa 164Q4 Super
M12A, Bosch ABS 2E ; Fiat Uno/Croma
M12B, Bosch ABS 2E / 2SH – SI ; Fiat Uno, Punto, Coupe´,…
MA13A, Diesel MS-A11 164TD/155 2.5TD ; Alfa 155/164 Super
MA14A, Marelli automatisches Verdeck ; Alfa Spider/GTV
M14A, Borletti automatische Heizung, Klimaanlage ; Fiat Uno/Tempra
MA15A, Bosch Motronic M 2.10.4 1,6;1,8;2,0L TwinSpark 16v ; Alfa 145/146 /155
M15A, Marelli Niveauregulierung ; Fiat Tempra S.W.
M18A, Alarmanlage/Airbag ; Alfa 164Q4 Super/Lancia Thema
M19A, Marelli IAW - P8 ; Fiat Tipo/Tempra
M20A, Marelli Digiplex 2/2S, Microplex/S; Fiat Tipo/Tempra/Croma/Cinquecento
M21A, Marelli Weber SPI, I.A.W. 6F ; Cinquecento, Panda, Punto
M23A, Marelli IAW - P8 (selbstadaptierend); Fiat Tipo/Tempra/Coupe´
M24A, Bosch M1.7 / M2.7 Fiat ; Fiat Croma
M25A, Bosch Monomotroni ; Fiat Tempra
M25B, Bosch Monomotronic MA 1.7 u. MA 1.7.3 ; Delta 1.4/1.6 Tempra 1.4
M26A, Aut. Getriebe ZF-Bosch CAE ; Alfa 164 Super/Croma V6/Thema
M27A, Diesel MS-A6 ; Alfa 155/164 Super
M28A, Marelli Weber MPI, I.A.W. 8F.52 ;Alfa 145 B1.3/1.4, Tipo, Tempra, Punto
M29A, Fiat Airbag(TRW), Diebstahlwarnanlage/Wegfahrsperre(ICIT)
; Alfa 145 Alarm (ICIT),Punto,Lancia
M30A, Bosch ABS 4X4 2SI ; Alfa 164Q4/Lancia Dedra S.W. 4x4
M32A, Marelli Weber MPI, I.A.W ; Fiat Ducato/Ulysse/
M33A, ACG Multec, Rochester, Multipoint GM ; Punto, Tempra, Dedra, Alfa 145 B1.6
M34A, Bosch MSA 11 Turbo Diesel ;Fiat Ducato/Croma/Lancia Thema/k
M35A, Bosch Motronic MP 3.2 ; Ulysse Turbo/Zeta
M36A, Bosch Motronic M 2.10.3 / Boxer 1.7 16v ; Alfa 145/146
M36B, Bosch Motronic M 2.10.3 mit Alfa Code 1.7 16v/2.0 16v ; Alfa Spider/GTV/145/146
M40A, Airbag mit Gurtstraffer, TRW Diebstahlsicherung, Sipea ; Alfa Spider/GTV
M42B, Superverriegelung / Texton Alarmanlage Safe-Diebstahlsicherung ; Ulysse/Zeta
M43A, MFI-O Hitachi ; Fiat Barchetta
M44A, Bosch Motronic M3.7 mit Alfa Code Spider 3.0V6/164Q4 ; Alfa Spider/GTV/164Q4
M45A, Fiat-Code, Alfa-Code, Lancia-Code IAW, Rochester, Diesel nur MS-A6; Alfa 145 und Diverse
M46A, Bosch Motronic M1.7 / M2.7 Fiat Code ; ?
M47A, ABS ATE MK 20 alle Modelle ; ?
M48A, Marelli Weber MPI, I.A.W IAF 13 mit Fiat Code ; ?
M49A, Bosch Motronic M 2.10.4 mit Fiat Code ; ?
M50A, Airbag ohne Crashschalter im Motorraum ; Alfa 164 Super
M52A, Lancia Z - Klimaanlage Behr
M56A, Bosch ABS 5.3 ; Alfa 145,146,155
M58A, Airbag ; Ulysse, Scudo und Zeta
M60A, Diesel Lucas ; Lancia Z.2.1 TD

menu in nederlands (NL):

MA1B, Bosch Motronic ML 4.1/ L-Jetronic L 3.2 ; Alfa 164/75/33/Spider
MA2A, Bosch ABS 2E/2K ; Alfa 33/145/155
MA3A, SCS-Fahrwerk Permanent 4/Q4/4X4 ; Alfa 164Q4 Super / 33 P4, Q4
MA4A, Bosch Motronic M 1.7; Bosch Motronic M 1.7 ; Alfa 164 Super/155
MA8A, Marelli Weber ; Alfa 155Q4
MA9A, Airbag (Siemens) ; Alfa 164Q4 Super
MA10A, Bosch Motronic M 3.7 u. MP3.1 ; Alfa164Q4 / 33 1.7/145 1.6
M18A, Alarmanlage/Airbag ; Alfa 164Q4 Super/Lancia Thema

one Modul: 30 Euro + shipping
recycling from old Modul you send me first: 20 Euro + shipping
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:54 pm

One MA12A module ordered thanks for the tip "164TD"
Too bad they only came in French and German. Bought a French one since the Viscomatic service bulletin is in French.
Will call around to the local FIAT workshops tomorrow and see if anyone have a tester I can borrow for some kind of "cake-bribe" :lol:
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby 164 TD » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:15 pm

I think I have the german MA12A manual as well, let me check that at home, I would go for the german version... Easier to translate.
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby Alfan » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:05 pm

164 TD wrote:I think I have the german MA12A manual as well, let me check that at home, I would go for the german version... Easier to translate.


I have it in German and I think it would be available on this site. If not, I can put it in dropbox.

I have to translate the French error messages to German - or it all to English, a bit impractical, but better than nothing.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby 164 TD » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:05 am

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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:15 pm



Thanks! Got the order changed in the last minute :)
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:30 pm

Have taken some time with the Q4

Mid and back exhaust is changed, but now it leaks in front of the cats instead, seems to be only gaskets so will fix that soon.

Have troubleshooted the Viscomatic ECU :

Pin 1 (12v supply) - 12v . OK
Pin 2 (Safety relay) - 12v . OK
Pin 3 (Steering) ~ 0-5v -- Fixed ! OK !
Pin 4 (Diag. K) - 12v . ?
Pin 5 (Diag. L) - 5v . ?
Pin 6 (Oil level) - 0v (5v disconnected) . OK !
Pin 7 (ABS FR) - 0.02v . standing still
Pin 8 (ABS RR) - 0.02v . standing still
Pin 9 (ABS RL) - 0.02v . standing still
Pin 10 (Reverse) - 12v . OK
Pin 11 (Flow) - Ign: 0.23V / Idle: 2.8V-> / Warninglight: 0v . OK !
Pin 12 (rpm) - Ign: 0.02v / Running: 3.8V . PWM?
Pin 13 (from saftey relay) - 12v . OK
Pin 14 (Key power) - 12v . OK
Pin 15 (TPS) - Ign: 0.5v / Idle: 0.58v / Throttle: +0.6v . OK !
Pin 16 (Piston.position) - Ign: 2.8v / Idle: 3.2v . OK !
Pin 17 (Power for sensors) - 5v . OK
Pin 18 (Pressure) - Ign: 0.25v / 4000rpm: ~4v
Pin 19 (Varning light) - 12v . OK
Pin 20 (Ground) - OK
Pin 21 (ABS FL) - 0.02v . Standning still
Pin 22 (Brake released) - 12V . OK
Pin 23 (Brake pressed) - 12V . OK
Pin 24 (Recharging signal) - Warning light off: 12V / Warning light off: 0V
Pin 25 (Main ground) - OK

EDIT: 4wd is working now.

Have not got the Alfa164diagnostic program to work yet.
See: http://alfaromeo164register.com/viewtop ... &start=100
Last edited by Maffia_Alfista on Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd

Postby Alfan » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:48 pm

Is pin 3 the steering angle sensor? In that case I don't think it goes all the way to 5V. I have tested the sensor several times lately, as my refurbished steering rack has the positioning of the sensor 90degress off...!

I can't recall the voltage range I got, but never fully up to 5V.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:00 pm

Alfan wrote:Is pin 3 the steering angle sensor? In that case I don't think it goes all the way to 5V. I have tested the sensor several times lately, as my refurbished steering rack has the positioning of the sensor 90degress off...!

I can't recall the voltage range I got, but never fully up to 5V.


Yes it's the steering angle sensor. Suppose to have 5V (according to manual) but maybe that's only the input amplitude. It stays at 3.9V no difference while steering. Is the signal a square wave (PWM) or
Should the voltage change while steering?
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd

Postby 164 TD » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:48 pm

Input should be 5V, output variing from 0V max left to 5V max steering right
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd

Postby Alfan » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:50 pm

With wheels and steering wheel looking straight ahead it should be 2.5V and then change up or down when turning.

I think it does not move more than 4V in total. If you have an extra sensor, you can unplug the one in the car and connect that one and try and turn it while monitoring the voltage.

If you see no change when turning the steering wheel, it would indicate that the plastic part that is put on the sensor and goes into the steering rack is broken. I have some photos of it, that I will put in dropbox.

You can unscrew the sensor from the rack from above. You 'just' need to get your arm in above the gearbox and loosen 2 10mm bolts. I have don't it several times now...
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd

Postby Alfan » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:51 pm

164 TD wrote:Input should be 5V, output variing from 0V max left to 5V max steering right


Right, I was focusing on the value when monitoring with the tester, I have not measured directly on the Viscomatic unit.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:38 pm

Ok I think we have found the problem guys.. Thanks! :)
Too bad that it's in a tight place but what can you do.. :(

Could it have been damaged when I mounted the steering column connector from inside the car?
Used hammer and punch to drive the connector down the "splined axle" after having it seated properly on the splines.

Where can I buy a new one?
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd

Postby Alfan » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:58 pm

Maffia_Alfista wrote:Ok I think we have found the problem guys.. Thanks! :)
Too bad that it's in a tight place but what can you do.. :(

Could it have been damaged when I mounted the steering column connector from inside the car?
Used hammer and punch to drive the connector down the "splined axle" after having it seated properly on the splines.

Where can I buy a new one?


What is the ' column connector' you are referring to? If it is the steering angle sensor, it is accessed from the engine bay. If the sensor has not been removed, it should be intact.

Here is a dropbox link to photos of the sensor and plastic part. Also a photo of the steering rack with a round hole where the sensor fits in to.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uejmb4ztwhfbeei/wWOZqO9pEc
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:13 pm

Alfan wrote:What is the ' column connector' you are referring to? If it is the steering angle sensor, it is accessed from the engine bay. If the sensor has not been removed, it should be intact.


By "column connector" I meant the clamp and spline type connector that connects the steering column to the steering box and is fixed with a bolt and nut.

But never mind, was just a little confused.. I see now on your pics (and remember) that it would not have been possible to damage the sensor from mounting the steering column.

Will have a look at it later this week.
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd

Postby 164 TD » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:19 pm

There are 2 steeringsensors; the steeringratesensors with LED's in the car for the suspension and the steeringsensor on the steeringrack for the viscomatic.

The one on the steeringrack is the one for the viscomatic.

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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:56 am

Seems like my Q4 is a "celebrity" in Norway..
http://www.tv2.no/underholdning/broom/f ... 00316.html
Add from previous owner
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