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164 Q4 -95 : AC fixed and status report

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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby wilco » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:29 am

got no number of it. Alfist sended that one.
yea 9mm seems more right i guess..
personaly i woul change is but if you think it's ok, go for it.. je remember the time you have to spend to dismantle it all to change ;)
Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby 164 TD » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:28 am

According to the Q4 manual the disk minimum wearlimit is 5,9 mm
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:52 pm

1-2 (from flywheel)
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3-4 (from flywheel)
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5-6 (from flywheel)
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Bearing halfes (closest to camera = closest to flywheel)
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Better pictures in better light tomorrow... better start searching for a GTA engine or at least a new crank right? :(
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby wilco » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:46 pm

There are companies that can make it like new. Depends on how much is needed to take off.
Normaly they also include the new bearings with it.
Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:39 pm

wilco wrote:There are companies that can make it like new. Depends on how much is needed to take off.
Normaly they also include the new bearings with it.


Yeah I will show it to some engine builder firms here in town and see what they say.
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:26 pm

Maffia_Alfista wrote:
wilco wrote:There are companies that can make it like new. Depends on how much is needed to take off.
Normaly they also include the new bearings with it.


Yeah I will show it to some engine builder firms here in town and see what they say.


According to workshop bulletin the V6 cranks are "nitride treated" and "does not allow any grinding operation".

So I'm buying a used one. If I get it correctly all 3.0 cranks before the 166 (since 156 was just 2,5) are the same and can be used.
The only difference being thread pitch on the flywheel bolts?

According to EPer:
60753003 was substituted by ->
96412068 was substituted by ->
96412092 was substituted by ->
96412842 latest

75
3.0 12v : 60753003 (96412092)
164
3.0 12v : 96412068 (96412092)
FL/92 12/24v : 96412092
Super 12/24v : 96412842
916 GTV, Spider + RZ/SZ
3.0 12/24v : 96412842

156, 166 and other post 1998 models has different oilpump drive but can they be used anyway?
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby wildcat » Thu May 02, 2013 8:54 am

Looks great! Thnx. for sharing. :)
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby Tamariini » Fri May 03, 2013 6:53 pm

Maffia_Alfista wrote:
Maffia_Alfista wrote:According to workshop bulletin the V6 cranks are "nitride treated" and "does not allow any grinding operation".


I've been using grinded ones in many alfa v6 engines with no probs. Including my alfa 75's 3.0 turbo engine with ~500hp :wink:

So just go for it, it'll be good :)
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby wilco » Fri May 03, 2013 7:31 pm

i once went to a rebuild center with the same question. that was no problem only that vertain crank was too worn out..
Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Fri May 10, 2013 12:08 am

Tamariini wrote:
Maffia_Alfista wrote:my alfa 75's 3.0 turbo engine with ~500hp :wink:


Specs, thread and videos please :)
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby Tamariini » Tue May 14, 2013 2:42 pm

Maffia_Alfista wrote:
Tamariini wrote:
Maffia_Alfista wrote:my alfa 75's 3.0 turbo engine with ~500hp :wink:


Specs, thread and videos please :)


Engine is a combination of alfa 164 V6, GTV V6 TB and lancia Thema + Garrett GT3076RS-WG

I have thread of it HERE but only in Finnish... No vids at the moment.
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--
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Eccentric bearing fixing nut torque

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:33 am

Hi everybody. The engine is coming back together with new bearings and piston rings etc again but I can't for my life find what torque the eccentric bearing fixing nut should be. Can anybody help me? Is it 50nm like for the V-belt bearing? Can't remember where/if I found it last time..
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby Helli » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:31 am

Maybe I could help you from the German Service/Repair Manual for the 300 V6 24V engine and/or the data special for the Q4 engine system.
Since I have not yet worked on my engine, the term " eccentric bearing fixing nut" is unknown to me.
Perhaps if you could post a picture (from EPER?) of the relevant assembly, then I might find it in the manual.
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby 164 TD » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:42 pm

Currently the link under manuals doesn't work correctly, but here is the link to the pages from the timing/auxbelt replacement.

I think your answer is on page 5; 75 Nm for the nut of the excentric bearing of the timing belt. On page 9 you will find 50 Nm for the excentric bearing of the auxbelt.

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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby wilco » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:46 pm

you mean the front pulley for the multibelt ? 235 NM
Image
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Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:50 pm

Where shall this ground connector go? It comes out of the loom on top of the gearbox and beside the rear head.

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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:47 pm

Probably goes under the throttle body now that I have thought about it.

Other problem: Starter not running. Both connectors are installed on the starter. It just dims the instrument lights when I crank. Engine is turnable on the crank, no gear in and the battery is fully charged. Coil pack and intake is not installed since I'm trying to do a compression test.
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby wilco » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:17 pm

got the main ground cable on ?
Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:13 pm

Yes. The small solenoid wire had come loose during the engine+subframe mounting operation. Taking the rear header off with engine in car is a bitch but now It finally cranks and the compression reading is good (?) 205-225psi (allright for not settled rings). Soon first start. Any tips? The oilpresssure is good this time, 5 bar on manometer (oilpump driven by handdrill not cranking engine out off the car) 3 bar on instrument dial cranking on starter with engine in car)
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Knock Knock...

Postby wilco » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:35 pm

don't forget to tighten the gearwheel of the oilpump ;)
Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:19 am

Wiiee it's alive again !! (have been for some time now.. )

I have started to break in the engine and it sounds glorious. I'm not as happy when I don't have a Busso V6 in my life, it's a simple fact :D

The problems remaining is..

* Problem 1: 4wd light comes on after aprox 15sec.. Always the same. Doesn't matter if I'm driving it or it idles. Only way to get it to turn off is to restart the car and after 15sec it's back again.. .
If I take off directly after starting it up the 4wd works until the light comes on. I have tried bleeding the system by loosening the hydraulic lines
(Pic: Green rings) from the hydralic group in the rear right corner under the car as per "Wilcos" instructions. It got better, first the light would not turn off at all. Done this 3 times now but no improvement from the first time.

One problem is that the connection for the line going into the right side on the block (Pic: Red ring, with an brake-line style connector) doesn't want to budge. So I have not bleed that one.

Image

- Is it important to bleed "the Red ring line"? Maybe I could loosen the bleed valve instead (on the picture they seem to go into the same part of the hydraulic group)
- Can I have mixed up the sensor connectors in the engine bay? They seemed all to be different when I took it apart and together again..

* Problem 2: Leaky exhaust
Standing still have not done the exhaust any favors. I bought an new midsection after the head-job but I have not yet installed it. Was going to yesterday but someone have "mended" the original exhaust so the flange is gone from the rear section and it looks pretty tired and leaks in one place anyway. Should have bought a kit with both mid and rear section when I was at it but I don't know if they offered them together at ebay at that time.. they do now (not the right picture though..)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Imasaf-Auspuff-S ... 5d468c64a4

- Where can I buy a cheap back section? Except ebay.. Less then 200euro. Not possible or do you guys know of a magic place where Q4-boys dreams come true ? ;)

Cheapest I have found so far (already have the midsection from them):
http://www.ebay.de/itm/IMASAF-Auspuff-E ... 5d3ba2e8ac


* Problem 3: ABS don't work. but no ABS-light on. Have bought the necessary cables and downloaded Wilcos program so I will start there. Have been like this since I bought it so possible the pump itself have ceased from to much standing still (2005-2012).
Last edited by Maffia_Alfista on Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby alfa east » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:12 pm

Fenomenal job so far and those 3 remaining problems can be overcome, I am sure.
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby Alfan » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:08 am

Problem 1: Since the light comes on at the same time no matter what you do after starting the car, I really think you need to have the error codes read out. I cannot pin-point anything specific for this.

Problem 2: I have also bought mid and rear sections from ebay and haven't found any cheaper solutions - still looking for that magic place, though...

Problem 3: I assume that the ABS light works, so next step is to get Wilco's sw and connect to it. I don't know if a seized pump would make the light go on or not, but I have an error code for the pump and still need to trace it. The light comes on in mine, though.

So you have the same situation as me: No ABS or 4WD at the moment.

But glad to hear that it's running again :D
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 265.000km
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 80.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:29 pm

Alfan wrote:Problem 1: Since the light comes on at the same time no matter what you do after starting the car, I really think you need to have the error codes read out. I cannot pin-point anything specific for this.


And for that I need the Magneti Marelli Alfatester and "Viscomatic-casette" right? No other way around it?
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Re: 164 Q4 -95 : Wroom Wroom but no 4wd, need exhaust backbo

Postby 164 TD » Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:48 pm

No, Wilco is still looking into the viscomaticprogram to find out how it works...
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