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164 Q4 fuel pump

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164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby AlfaWhiz » Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:59 am

Anyone knows where one could source a replacement fuel pump which would fit the Q4, preferably a new one?

Original part number: 60589833
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby Alfan » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:53 am

I suggest you put this under 'Wanted'. I think Jason (alfissimo) can help out.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby augusto drigo » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:42 pm

somos 2... preciso da minha também...
Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 - 56.000 km
Alfa Romeo 155 2.0 T.S DTM MARTINI - 86.000 km
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby AlfaWhiz » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:31 pm

I already contacted Jason.

The reason I asked here is that I found one of your older posts Alfan, where you mentioned using an Iveco unit which apparently fits. I was hoping to hear about that. :)
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby Alfan » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:54 pm

AlfaWhiz wrote:I already contacted Jason.

The reason I asked here is that I found one of your older posts Alfan, where you mentioned using an Iveco unit which apparently fits. I was hoping to hear about that. :)


If you have a link to that post, I can try and look at it again. I do recall that, but not the details, though I think it was based on having the manufacturer number labeled on the pump unit...
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby AlfaWhiz » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:23 am

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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby AlfaWhiz » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:33 am

So only original for the replacement, no alternative guys? Not a big deal, since they are somewhat available, but it would have been nice to have a plan B.

One could probably fit an aftermarket fuel pump, I just wonder if this has already been tried by someone from here.

In any case, manufacturer and product ID of the original part would be useful to know, so one could compare the stats with the aftermarket products.
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby Alfan » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:56 pm

Bosch 0 580 453 980

See here: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168 ... mbers.html

Thanks, Alfisto Steve :)

Photos of the defective one taken from my Q4.
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IMG_8129 (800 x 450).jpg
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby AlfaWhiz » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:21 pm

Perfect, that's it, thanks! :D

Slightly puzzled, as the Bosch automotive catalog does not show a fuel pump for the Q4 (if I see it correctly). Good to know what to look for nevertheless.
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby lucky » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:21 am

Hi,
I has the same problem before one week.And change my pump whit that on bosch.
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby Integrale evo » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:20 pm

But isent original bosch number 0 580 464 990, I dont know the diffrent but?
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby Alfan » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:13 pm

Integrale evo wrote:But isent original bosch number 0 580 464 990, I dont know the diffrent but?


What do you mean? That Bosch number refers to these cars (Q4 is not included here):

ALFA ROMEO 164 2.0 T.S. [164] 106KW/ 144PS 2.0l 09.1992 - 10.1998
ALFA ROMEO 164 3.0 V6 12V [164] (BR) 145KW/ 197PS 3.0l 09.1992 - 10.1998
ALFA ROMEO 164 3.0 V6 12V [164] 132KW/ 180PS 3.0l 09.1992 - 10.1998
ALFA ROMEO 164 3.0 V6 24V [164] (BR) 155KW/ 211PS 3.0l 09.1992 - 10.1998
ALFA ROMEO 164 3.0 V6 24V [164] 155KW/ 211PS 3.0l 09.1992 - 10.1998
ALFA ROMEO 164 3.0 V6 24V [164] 169-171KW/ 230-232PS 3.0l 09.1992 - 10.1998
ALFA ROMEO 164 3.0 V6 24V [164] 170KW/ 231PS 3.0l 09.1992 - 10.1998
ALFA ROMEO 164 3.0 i.e. [164] 136-140KW/ 184-190PS 3.0l 09.1990 - 09.1992
FERRARI 456 GT / GTR 48V 325KW/ 442PS 5.5l 03.1996 - 12.2004
FERRARI 456 GT 2+2 325KW/ 442PS 5.5l 01.1993 - 03.1996
FERRARI 512 TR 315KW/ 428PS 5.0l 01.1992 - 08.1992
FERRARI 550 Maranello 5.5 (EU,USA) 357KW/ 485PS 5.5l 10.1996 - 12.2003
FERRARI F 50 V12 (EU,USA) 383KW/ 520PS 4.7l 07.1995 - 10.1997

https://secure.bosch-classic.com/en/pro ... archResult
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby AlfaWhiz » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:20 pm

To be honest Q4 is also not included in this catalog as user of 0 580 453 980 which is the original one. :D

I will buy one of the available ones. We'll see how it goes. I'll report back.

EDIT: pump listed here: https://www.alfa-service.com/product_info.php/info/p12828_OE--60589833-FUEL-PUMP-164-V6-24V.html as OE 60589833 is actually Bosch 0 580 464 997. Confirmed by the shop owner.
Last edited by AlfaWhiz on Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby AlfaWhiz » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:14 am

So guys after shopping half the night for fuel pumps, I have finally decided to do what lucky did above and have ordered new 0 580 314 064 pump. It is the exact same size and has the protruded "collar" in the same location. 3 bars pressure as well. Outlet looks different and connector as well, but comes with a set to be fitted instead of original connectors. Total cost ca. 100 EUR shipped, Bosch original.

lucky, Alfan, from your experience, will the difference in outlet length not be a problem (you can see the difference in lucky's excellent side-by-side picture)? How does the outlet connect to the original assembly?

I am slightly worried that longer submersible hose will be required, and those are impossible to find, but I don't know how the assembly is built and how the pump is actually connected to the rest. Your help will be much appreciated, as I will have to do it in one go and I have to be prepared. What else do I need, any hose clamps, hoses, wires, special tools?
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby lucky » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:00 am

Hi,
I not find submersible like original. Put a litle longer.Like this one.
https://www.spectromatic.net/bg/product ... rkuch.html
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby AlfaWhiz » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:19 pm

Thanks for the information lucky. I will get some 8 mm fuel line and clamps, I guess everyone doing the job in the future should be prepared with extra submersible hose and clamps as well. I will try to use rubber hose though.

No problem with removing the fuel pump hose at the top of the assembly? There are 2 elbow-like connectors on the top of the fuel tank. I don't want to break anything. I've read they can be removed by just lifting them slightly with thin needle nose pliers applying gentle lifting pressure to the outer cylindrical ring of the nozzle. Is that correct?
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby Alfan » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:17 pm

From what I recall, the connectors at the top are just pushed in place, so your description sounds right. It should be possible to have a submersible hose with a fitting made, if needed.

I hope the other pump is an easy fit, photos please, so the rest of us knows what to do, when we get to that point :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby AlfaWhiz » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:35 am

Thanks for the information guys. I wouldn't want to damage the connectors. I still don't understand how they remain in place with pressure inside the line without any groove, maybe the pressure holds the fitting secure? Or the top cover actually secures the elbow fittings from shooting up? Who knows.

Alfan wrote:It should be possible to have a submersible hose with a fitting made, if needed.

Does the submersible hose have a fitting? I am not prepared for that, so I hope the original one will fit without issues. I can replace it with new piece of hose using hose clamps, but I won't have enough time to have a new fitting made.

Anyway, I'll report back with (hopefully good) results. :)
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby Alfan » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:31 pm

If you do it gently, you should be able to see how it works with the connectors.

I got a submersible hose connected directly to a fitting for the Lancia, but maybe it is different for the Alfa, so forget that.

So photos, please :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
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2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby lucky » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:20 am

What happened?Need help?
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby AlfaWhiz » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:55 am

Everything went well, the new pump fits and I have gathered a lot of useful information.

Original pump Bosch 0 580 453 980 can be successfully replaced by Bosch 0 580 314 064 with no issues. You need one new injection hose clap or Oettiker clamp to do this.

The outlet of Bosch 0 580 314 064 pump is slightly thinner diameter than original, but I had no issues clamping the original submersible hose in place. You have to do this carefully to avoid creating any creases in the submersible hose. I had to use slightly smaller clamp than the original one, the hose is ca. 11 mm outer diameter and I've used Oettiker clamp with range of 9,6 to 11,3 mm to fit it to the new pump outlet.

The pump has the same dimensions overall, just the outlet is a bit shorter and smaller diameter than original, this causes no issues though as mentioned above. Connectors do differ as well, new pump comes with a very nice spade connector and can be fitted to the original cables without problems.

Photos will hopefully help others to do the job in the future. I think it's nice to have this properly documented.

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I did run into one problem when removing the hoses from the top of the fuel tank. I have tried to remove the elbow connectors the proper way first, but this was not successful. The way you should do it is NOT just by pulling them up, as they are designed to cut into the plastic outlet and block when doing so. You need a tool to lift the very bottom part of the elbow connector up (red part with kind of corrugated pattern), and pull the connector up at the same time when pushing the bottom part up. I had to take mine apart after attempting to disconnect as I was not sure it will seal... In the end I just removed the hoses from the elbows directly and it was much easier... The problem is that the plastic ring (red in the photos below) looses its elasticity with time and does not release properly. When you push it up it catches the plastic outlet part with it's metal tabs and does not want to go up. You can see how it's designed, it has slightly more space for the expandable elastic crown with metal tabs higher up inside the elbow (like a cone-shape) and once you push it up, the metal tabs shout expand outward and not touch the assembly outlet anymore. Can cause a lot of problems. I even saw photos of the assembly with those outlets already replaced by something else, like brass pipes etc., as they were probably broken when attempting to remove the connectors. Small note: one of the elbows sits higher than the other one and it's correct (I lost track and got worried about this at some point...). Be very careful! Luckily those elbows were also used in some TS models etc., so probably can be sourced. There is a green o-ring quite deep (high) inside. Photos should explain.

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WARNING! Being short on time fixing this before the meeting in Arese, I have also ordered another pump in case this one would not fit or would not arrive on time. I've called the shop about the item listed here: https://www.alfa-service.com/product_info.php/info/p12828_OE--60589833-FUEL-PUMP-164-V6-24V.html as OE 60589833 and it is actually Bosch 0 580 464 997. Confirmed by the shop owner. This is important as it comes up in Google when you search for OE part number fuel pump. So I have ordered one from eBay as it's much cheaper. The result was not good, the pump is different, much bigger and will not fit. You can see it in the photos below, compared to the original one. Be careful! :!:

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Big hat tip to lucky for finding out a suitable replacement. Thanks! :)

Some more photos here: http://alfaromeo164register.com/community/fotoboek/showalbum.php?album=AlfaWhiz&sub=Fuel%20Pump%20Replacement
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby alfa east » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:30 am

Again, great, detailed info!
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby MikeCZ » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:42 am

Thanks for the worning abou 0 580 464 997 - It showes as result for the TB engine as well and I was thinking about ordering one (as my fuel pump is also starting to take time during some starts) Only possibility would be that the TB pump is different then for the atmospheric enginers, but I doubt so.
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Ex: Fiat Stilo 1.4 MW 2007
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Re: 164 Q4 fuel pump

Postby AlfaWhiz » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:10 am

I'm glad it's useful!

MikeCZ, if you remove and measure yours, and it turns out to be in fact the bigger 0 580 464 997, I can sell you mine if you wish. It's still sealed and I won't need it anymore. :) Just shoot me a PM, I will keep it for a while.
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