164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Did you find a part on another type or make car that fits the 164? We love to hear about it!
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AlfaWhiz
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164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by AlfaWhiz » Tue May 13, 2014 3:40 pm

I have found the Bosch OEM part number for Q4 ABS block (60593385/46405398 part number, 1994 model year): 0 265 204 007, later substituted by 0 265 204 008. This info should be good for every 164 Q4 (engines AR 64307/66304). Maybe it will also be useful for someone else.

There is also a strong suspicion that the hydromechanical part of the ABS block is the same in all of the models, and just the electronic part changes. This would mean any hudromechanical problems can be easily fixed by replacing this part and swaping the electronics. This however is not yet confirmed and has to be investigated further.

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Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by AlfaWhiz » Tue May 13, 2014 4:50 pm

A minor update. I have identified two possible alternatives to the Q4 ABS block. One is Bosch 0 265 204 005/0 265 204 006 (used in the majority of other 164 Alfas), the other one being 0 265 201 061 (used in some Fiat/Lancia/Alfa cars, like Dedra or 155 Q4).

From the looks of the hydromechanical part alone, both seem to be very close in appearance (if not identical) to the one used in 164 Q4. Worryingly, I have noticed there are different variants of the bolts used, even within the same part number, when looking at the top of the unit. The inner workings and any differences between them are also a mistery.

I think I'll go ahead and order the 0 265 201 061, as those are affordable, and experiment a bit.

If anyone else is interested, I encourage to try the same.

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Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by 164 TD » Wed May 14, 2014 6:29 am

Mind you the ABS used on the later models is completely different!

You need the hydromechanical part of the first series FL/Super.

Read my article about it:

ABS
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Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by AlfaWhiz » Wed May 14, 2014 7:26 am

Yes, I know, thanks. I saw your topic earlier. I double-checked everything also with the Bosch catalogue, it says the ABS in Q4 is of ABS 2 ASG type, and the one I currently ordered for research purposes is ABS 2 WSG, the difference (hopefully) being in the location and function of the electronic component (ASG vs WSG).

0 265 201 061 is also relatively cheap, you can get them easily under 40 EUR, compared to under 100 EUR for 0 265 204 005/0 265 204 006 used in non-Q4 164 Alfas.

Like said before, the hydromechanical component looks to be exactly the same (at lest from the outside), while the part attached to it (with the electronics inside) is of course different.

Here's a photo of the one I bought to try it out:

Image

Now, if this does not work besause of the ASG/WSG difference, at least we will confirm this part is not a valid substitute. Then I will go for a non-Q4 164 unit and again try replacing the electronic component. Otherwise, we will have an affordable fix for the ABS block.

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Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by Mansen » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:45 am

The ABS Block form an Fiat Punto 176 | 0265204013 with the electronic for the Q4, works like a charm. :D

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Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by Maffia_Alfista » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:49 am

Mansen wrote:The ABS Block form an Fiat Punto 176 | 0265204013 with the electronic for the Q4, works like a charm. :D
Good tip ! Thanks :)

My ABS is currently not working, will see if new pump is needed.
Daniel Jansson
164 Q4 -95
GTV6 -83
75TS - 90


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Alfan
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Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by Alfan » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:42 pm

Great info!
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by Alfan » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:47 am

Mansen wrote:The ABS Block form an Fiat Punto 176 | 0265204013 with the electronic for the Q4, works like a charm. :D
I talked to my mechanic (Bosch trained) and he told me that separating the hydraulic and electronic unit would mean that air gets into the hydraulic system, that you are not able to get out, when putting it all together again.

So I am curious to hear if you had any problems when doing this? I guess not, based on your comments, I would just like to get it confirmed :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by Mansen » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:30 pm

I can not trace this, the electronics is only screwed and plugged. She has no direct contact with the brake fluid. But maybe I overlooked something, for me it still works behaviourless.

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Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by 164 TD » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:21 pm

hydraulic and electronic parts are completely separated.

The solenoid are inside the hydraulic part and can be opened and flushed by applying the correct current if needed.

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Alfan
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Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by Alfan » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:05 pm

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my description :roll: I meant between the pump motor and the hydraulic unit. These photos.should show what I refer to:

http://alfaromeo164register.com/communi ... 97-800.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://alfaromeo164register.com/communi ... 96-800.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I want to replace the pump motor on the ABS unit in my car, as that is defective. This is where my mechanic says that air will get into the system and cannot be flushed.

I hope that he is wrong, but if anyone has input to this, I would like to know about it.

I have tried another electrical unit with no change.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

164 TD
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Location: Honselersdijk

Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by 164 TD » Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:54 am

The pump is running after startup of the car and its first movement as a sort of build in test. When I had the ABS light on, I removed the cover of the pumprelay to give it a go. With the pump running you will purge all the air out of the unit
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Alfan
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Re: 164 Q4 ABS block/pump

Post by Alfan » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:46 am

164 TD wrote:The pump is running after startup of the car and its first movement as a sort of build in test. When I had the ABS light on, I removed the cover of the pumprelay to give it a go. With the pump running you will purge all the air out of the unit
Makes sense - thanks for the info :)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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