Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV "Q2" project

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164EVER
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:42 am
Location: france, allier

Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by 164EVER » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:58 pm

I am astonished, what you do is :shock: :shock: BIG
164 3.0 V6 1988 330000KM
164 2.0 TS 1989 243000KM
164 SUPER 2.5 TD 1993 308000KM
156 1.8 TS 2001 165000KM.
EX : 33 SW 1.5, 1.3 ie, 1.5 ie, 33 1.7 QV 16V, GIULIETTA 116 1.6, ALFA 6 2.5 (X3), 146 boxer 1.6 , 164 SUPER 2.0 TS.

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Alfan
Q4 owner
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by Alfan » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:03 pm

Alfan wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:27 pm
This is still awesome 8)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 65kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 195kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 100kkm

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:56 am

New stuff :D

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Huge front bearing :o

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Also some rare OE Alfa stuff :mrgreen:

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V "QV" Q2 1990
Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993&1998 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1993 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:20 pm

Waiting for a few last parts from gold anodizing and then I can finish engine 100%. In meanwhile not much new. Few parts sandblasted and waiting for powder coating.

Here's another photo of engine for meanwhile :mrgreen:

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V "QV" Q2 1990
Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993&1998 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1993 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

MikeCZ
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by MikeCZ » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:45 pm

This is just gorgeous work, you do :shock: :)
Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0JTDm 2011
Ex: Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 V6TB 1995, Honda Civic VIII 1.8 2010, Seat Leon ST FR1.4 TSI 2017, Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 JTDm 2007 berlina, Fiat Stilo 1.4 MW 2007

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:53 pm

Thanks. :D


13kg ready for gold passivation (zinc plating)

All cleaned from oils, rust, dirt, etc for best results

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Some parts did their job :lol:

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This is only for AC compressor holder :lol:

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TS is going to the scrapyard after 15 years in my family.

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After 5 dashboards taken out, I have learned that I can only unscrew 8 big bolts and disconnect 5 big connectors on each side and whole dashboard with EVERYTHING comes out. DOH! :?

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Now I need to take cables from lower one 3.0 to upper in great condition from mine TS

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Results of gold passivation 8)

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Cleaned a lot of parts also and getting them ready for rust removal and new paint.

Cleaned injectors. Outside and inside, plus tested.

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Position sensor installed and idle motor. Original oil catch can was in total shit condition. Rust, full of dirt, etc. So I decided to buy new from a friend which had one extra and it is the same dimensions as original so it will go to the original place!

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Ignition leads, AC compressor, generator, belt plastic protection and this is it I think.

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V "QV" Q2 1990
Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993&1998 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1993 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:29 pm

Subframe is almost complete. Steering rack, ABS holder, antiroll bar, gearbox, and engine front mount still waiting for new paint before installing.
Final look is crazy! :mrgreen:

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Also new original plastic plugs :)

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V "QV" Q2 1990
Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993&1998 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1993 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:02 am

Sorry guys for (again) no update for a LONG time. Don't know how many are even still active up here.

So half-year update :mrgreen: Take time, a lot of photos coming :lol:

Cutting old bearings off

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Cleaning and checking CV joints.

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Outer CV joints good

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Inner have too much wear, so they will be replaced

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My old 2.0 TS first and rear windows were taken out by myself for reserve

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Wet sandblasted engine mount

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8 QV shock absorbers. If anyone interested willing to sell 1 set 8)

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Also if anybody interested how to get to rear rust panel. Check photos below. I was experimenting on poor TS :|

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Got some OE alfa stuff cheap

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Nuts also gold passivated to match all other bolts.

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Wanted to reseal AC but found out it is shit. Full of rust.

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But luckily TS is the same body, but only different coil and pulley+clutch.

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Figured out, I didn't put tensioner boot correct. So repaired that.

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Also installed the crank sensor

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And also manage to put together one good set of protection plastics

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FINALLY! After a few years of search, I got it. And I got it on my bday! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Replaced middle dashboard with mine, which was a much better condition. Only moved a new trip with red stitches to mine. Also repaired one spring for handbrake door. Only gear boot will also come in leather and with red stitches.

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I have 5 complete units. So I took one from 3.0 in the best condition. Also refreshed it a little bit. And put km to 0. It was a lot of work to put them to 0.

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And complete!

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That's all! I have complete QV interior. All parts with red stitches 8) :mrgreen:

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Last engine details. I made it like brushed aluminium.

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Some new stuff again

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Water pipes collected and will go to my manufacturer to make new hoses.

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AC pipes will for now stay old since I got a lot of them and still looking good.

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Smaller parts sandblasted by me, larger parts will be taken to sandblasting

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Fuel filter mont will need to be made new.

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From hubs, I managed to take off ABS sensors and then they went to the spa :lol:

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Much nicer! Rust free 8)

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AC compressor back together and also front cover painted

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Cable need repair and also pulley needs to be painted.

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Even more, parts painted in 2K primer + 2k black.

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Main engine mount. Still looking good.

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Black 8)

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Driveshafts like new. L and R need to be assembled with CV joints. Middle one got a new bearing and installed on the engine.

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New inner CV joints

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Also managed to get 2 NEW 2019 V6 12V timing belts! 8)

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All parts that needed sandblasting are complete

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And painted! Primer and black powder-coated

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Also found some bad news :| I will be making complete new engine wiring. This is all damaged and in horrible condition.

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Subframe is almost complete. Only gearbox mount and power steering missing. Installed ABS mount, water pipe and anti-roll bar with powerflex bushes!

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What a shit to install. Problem is the shape of 164 anti-roll bar :roll:

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Checking for color.

414 - 130 - 501
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Giulia rosso 414
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164 rosso 130
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33 stradale rosso 501
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And working on chassis again, so I can put it in a garage over winter and put all back together.


Engine bay finished with primer. Next filler.

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Max height

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All chassis parts newly sealed

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Right one is still not completely finished

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Stock is getting bigger and bigger haha

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And this is yesterdays work.

So heavy work in so little space. Horrible job.

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Some parts are still damaged from rust, so I used wurth rust converter on them to stabilize rust.

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V "QV" Q2 1990
Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993&1998 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1993 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

MikeCZ
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by MikeCZ » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:57 am

Wow, lots of nice work :) Thumbs up!
Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0JTDm 2011
Ex: Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 V6TB 1995, Honda Civic VIII 1.8 2010, Seat Leon ST FR1.4 TSI 2017, Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 JTDm 2007 berlina, Fiat Stilo 1.4 MW 2007

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AlfaGuzzi
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:51 am

Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by AlfaGuzzi » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:36 pm

Impressive effort👍

164EVER
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Location: france, allier

Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by 164EVER » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:28 pm

VERY impressive.
This engine is a diamond.
Where are the 8 bolts to be unscrewed before taking of the dashboard ?
164 3.0 V6 1988 330000KM
164 2.0 TS 1989 243000KM
164 SUPER 2.5 TD 1993 308000KM
156 1.8 TS 2001 165000KM.
EX : 33 SW 1.5, 1.3 ie, 1.5 ie, 33 1.7 QV 16V, GIULIETTA 116 1.6, ALFA 6 2.5 (X3), 146 boxer 1.6 , 164 SUPER 2.0 TS.

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Alfaomegatron
3.0 V6 12V owner
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by Alfaomegatron » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:01 pm

Killergame, your abridged thread on AO has referred me back to this website, last visited by myself some 5 years ago (my shame); your project was/is ambitious but the manner with which you have researched, refurbished and improved the car really is very impressive. Thank you for documenting your journey with the project to date. Its has become a reference work for myself.
So you know we are continuing to paying attention, would you expand on:-
1. The condition you found the original injectors after your testing, performance after cleaning and why you dispensed with the idea of replacement injectors.
2. Rear brake bias valve, did you refurbish or find a replacement?
3. The measurements you recorded for the 3.0 exhaust, was it a complete OE system or a botched assembly of several patent sections?

Inspiring stuff as said by others, we look forward to the next update.
1990 V6 Lusso

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by killergame » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:26 pm

Thank you, guys! Means a lot that you follow and comment :D

164EVER 8 "gold" nuts are on the engine side. You need to take out the fan, climate unit, and wipers unit. Then you will be able to see all 8 nuts.

Alfaomegatron thanks a lot. Really happy that my work inspires you :D
1. An injector that I have cleaned and tested. I have listened to the sound of clicking and check how they spray. I wanted to test also with fuel pump and make test station how much fuel they spray in let's say 30 seconds. And then compare all 6. But since I am going to replace them with new EV6 injectors I won't do that for only some 1500km that I am going to use original ones. Why replacing them? EV6 has exactly the same flow and everything as original but is much quieter and 4 point spray.
2. Refurbished. I have some 3-4 more extra that I will refurbish and put for sale.
3. Do you mean 24V headers that I modify to fit 12V? I have made a device based on original OE headers and then made a flange measure diagram which I then gave to laser cut. And then I have taken all together to exhaust workshop, told them what to modify and they made it. Check photo bellow.

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So. My next big update for the last 4 months :mrgreen: I just can't find time to post regularly.
3 vikend in končno desni kolotek zadaj v temeljni! Skrita rja, pikice rje, povsod razmetana. Speskano, pobrušeno vse pa namazano z wurtohom in sedaj še temeljna. Pride pa še tesnilna masa po vseh spojih sedaj in pa body.

Chassis protected from painting

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All wiped with silicone remover

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The last check I found some more rust to solve

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Some more rust around fuel pipe hole

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And painted in primer. Soo hard to paint. Very narrow, tall and inaccessible tower of rear strut. But I made it somehow :D

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I wanted to use a new scudetto from super, which is nicer to me. But in the end, I decided to use the original, since everything else is going to match the old QV look.

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Sandblasted some parts for me and friend (rails)

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Some parts in 2k primer

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Left rear wheel arch. Much less rust, but I know that already.

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Night didn't stop me :mrgreen:

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And painted with wurth rust converter to neutralize all micro holes for rust left.

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And painted in 2k primer

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I had a problem with one hub. Don't know if the problem because of citron acid taking all rust away or just so used hub. Well, bearing just went freely in and out. So I tried this solution plus Loctite for bearings. I hope it will hold, if not, I will need to replace the hub.

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All together. Checked also wheel hub and only 0.05 mm from straight, which is still ok.

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I needed to try :mrgreen:

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And then this shit. The floor of 164 :| I thought this will be finished very fast, only a few little surface rusts. Mhm..when I started to peel off the body, then I started to see a real image. Still very good for 164, but honestly I expected a bit healthier.

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The main problem of rust on all 164.

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Finished. How it was and how it is now I am pretty pleased. Still have some more rust on the floor and exhaust tunnel, but that is really small. I will need to cut out some little piece on rear right arm mount because of sheet metal broke and water plus salt came in.

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And painted. After around 5 days living under car :lol: :mrgreen:

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Next. I started to work on the gearbox.

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After a few days of research, I came to very useful information. I had one original 3.0 12V gearbox. And other which came with my engine but fast notice it's not the same. As it turned out it is 2.0 V6 TB. Of course different gear ratio. 3.0 has 18/56 and V6 TB 17/58. And after more searching, this leads to even better conclusions. Cover of gearboxes tells a lot :mrgreen:

2.0 TB has the same cover as QV version.

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This is regular 3.0.

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In the end, you compare 3.0 QV vs V6 TB and you find out they both have the same hear ratio 17/58. Also, both gearboxes use the big clutch and pull activation which you can find only on QV and V6 TB. So the conclusion is, somebody, put some work in this gearbox and modify it to push system of the smaller clutch which then fits all normal 3.0 V6 engines. Probably only push bearings fork and arm on the fork for cylinder needed to be replaced.

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So looks like I will have the same gearbox as on QV engine :mrgreen:


Clutch cylinder on gearbox rebuild. It was almost new, but the piston was not moving ok, because of a long time no use. So I rebuild it with new seals.

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Plus rear brake cylinder cleaned and ready to paint

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Painted with high temp. paint. I need to bake it to make the paint resistant.

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With a set of the clutch cylinder, I got the wrong boot. But it looked very similar to gearbox one :mrgreen:

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Everything great except big diameter. I will solve that by making oilon bush, press it on the gearbox and problem solved.

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I started taking the gearbox apart. First I need to clean it outside. Then I will probably take it apart because a lot of gray and little metal pieces came out.

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Fast try. Looking great.

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Finished rear brake cylinder. Paint baked for 1 hour on 200°C.

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Evolution of 164 keys. I will use the one with light which is also most beautiful for me. By luck I found a match of lock and key :mrgreen:

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Some more OE Alfa stuff bought.

Got very cheap new boot for gear changing rods.

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Gearbox plug

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Boot for gearbox changing mechanism rod.

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Cover of spark plug

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I also started this job. I need to take 3.0 complete dashboard wiring out and put in od TS dashboard which is in great condition compared to 3.0.

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A few cables :lol:

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AND for the end of this post. I got this beauty :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Q2 gearbox from147. So 164 is going to be Q2 8) :P

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Almost none metal pieces on the magnet.

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Gear taken off. I need to take off bearings, put plastic ring for speedometer from 164 and put new bearings on.

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Ow almost forgot. One more thing haha. I got 2 more engines :lol: :lol: 3.0 12V and 3.0 24V. Few boxes still missing. Plus got new complete engine gaskets for both engines plus some more new stuff.

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Last edited by killergame on Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V "QV" Q2 1990
Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993&1998 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1993 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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Alfan
Q4 owner
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Post by Alfan » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:41 am

Extra parts are always nice to have :)

I will be going through your thread again, now that I am slowly starting to take my Q4 apart. If I can just get close to your results, I would be extremely happy!!
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 65kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 195kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 100kkm

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Raphael164Super24V
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV "Q2" project

Post by Raphael164Super24V » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:31 pm

I just browsed your pages, congratulations to you !!
Beautiful photos and very informative!!
Alfa 164 Super 3.2 24V 1993
Alfa 164 Super 3.0 24 1995
Alfa GTV6 2.5
Alfa 33 1.7 QV

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV "Q2" project

Post by killergame » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:53 pm

Alfan thank you very much. Glad to hear my thread is going to be helpfull. And thanks for praises. Doing my best possible with rebuild :D
Raphael thank you!

So..this year was suppost to be year of my 164 finished. But..bussines with company is growing and my free time for 164 is almost non existing anymore. You can see what time I am posting this now haha.

Lost transmition mount that find it's way to me from Italy after 3 month. I am using TS mount, because V6 is to expensive..prices around 200€. This one was I thing some 50€ with shipping.

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Bought another 12V :lol: :mrgreen:

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I have new nissens radiator, but is total shit. Fan doesn't fit at all on radiator and radiator doesn't fit in subframe because some extra metal, that hits subframe. So I decidet do buy 2 original ones, from which I should be straight and one bent. I ended up buying 2 bent raidators for 100€, that I will probably not be able to straigthen and use... :roll:

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Started to fix wiring also. I hate wiring, but old italian and wires are probably main thing that need attention :lol:

Front door wirings complete and wraped with harness tape

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Only few more :lol: :lol:

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Cleaning ventilation pipes and new isolation/anti vibration padding. Shit to clean

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But final look is worth it :D

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Ventilation/heater box cleaning and checking

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Extra parts come handy somethimes haha

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Poor condtion "gasket"

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Cleaned

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And new gasket

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Dashboard cables. This took me around 3 weekends probably. At least, if not more

Modified and sealed this old time connectors

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Cleaned grounds

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And then brains of 164 that connects everything! I checked resistance of all + and ground wires to see that they are ok.

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Fixing isolation, wires, repaired some that were cut, etc

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Old bad type connector replaced with new type.

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All wires to last cm were cleaned with brake cleaner and toothbrush and wrapet with harness tape

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Back of fues box before

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And after

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And complete. Cleaned, checked, repaired, wraped. Only radio cables not ready yet, I need to install new euro std connectors, but I need to check wiring diagram for speakers

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And then I needed to install this back to dashboard like it was original. Of course I took photos before taking them off, so they are exactly like original :D

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Looking much much better then original and taking much less space

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Some time ago i replaced also 2013 belt with 2020, because DAYCO started producing then again. So no more only old stock.

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Replaced exhaust manifold studs with longer ones, which I need for my modified manifolds.

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Bought some more OE Alfa stuff. Even manage to get ORIGINAL FLOOR SEAL PLUGS! I could not believe when I read available! :lol: :mrgreen:

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Only level sensor is wrong. I didn't check good and missed that later 12V models had smaller sump and of course shorter sensor..Hopefully maybe I will still be able to use this one if it goes enought in oil. Light would come on a bit earlier if level of oil drops, but that would be even better. I will see.

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I need to do some spot welding so I bought CO2 200A welding machine :D

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And I also found same as original sound isolation material. Same material, same thickness. Great 8)

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Latest thing I did few days ago is put box back and seal it properly :D

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Also upper windshield ventilation pipes

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Almost forgot. Main reason I don't have any time is, that many people now want me, to rebuild their engines. Currently having 3 mine to rebuild and 2 will be for sale. And 4 customer engines. 164 QV, GTV 2.0 V6 TB, 156 3.0 24V waiting and GTV6 is almost complete. Plus 2 more coming in winter times :)

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V "QV" Q2 1990
Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993&1998 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1993 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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Raphael164Super24V
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV "Q2" project

Post by Raphael164Super24V » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:56 pm

Awesome job on the wiring !! Good work, look forward to the continuation
Alfa 164 Super 3.2 24V 1993
Alfa 164 Super 3.0 24 1995
Alfa GTV6 2.5
Alfa 33 1.7 QV

MikeCZ
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV "Q2" project

Post by MikeCZ » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:32 pm

Really great work! As for the gearbox mount, the one from TS fits without modifications, plug-n-play? because I when I was doing the work on my car I was not able to find the V6 mount at all... and it's only old mount in my engine bay :D
Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0JTDm 2011
Ex: Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 V6TB 1995, Honda Civic VIII 1.8 2010, Seat Leon ST FR1.4 TSI 2017, Alfa Romeo 159 2.4 JTDm 2007 berlina, Fiat Stilo 1.4 MW 2007

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killergame
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV "Q2" project

Post by killergame » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:38 pm

Thanks :D

MikeCZ as far as I have checked, any mount for gearbox is ok haha. Many people put TS instead of V6, which is almost impossible to get for normaln price. Mostly they cost 200€+, which is crazy..

Update

Don't know if I will use it, since mine is not original QV in papers, but bought it, until they are still available :D

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Not going to have rusty arms

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Citric acid bath for derust and then to gold passivating

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Much better! :D

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A bit ob paiting. This is mount for airbox. Also new little rubber mounts for airbox

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Painted ventilatio/dashboard mount

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Few gaskets for air ventilation pipes

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Ventilation system almost complete

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A bit of spending again haha. By some miracle I found SKF rear NEW bearing for 1. series from my supplier. For 13€ hahah!! We all know how hard this are to get and prices on ebay are to sky..

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A bit more rare orginal parts. Lately I am buying OE Alfa parts from few supplier that sale OE parts very cheap. Fuel pump filter and anti vibration rubber

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Original new master brake cylinder! :D

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Also ordered custom bushes for AC compressor brackets. Now I can finally also gave brackets to to gold passivation insted of this horrible "gold" color, which is nowhere near gold

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Made copy of original timing belt tool for pulleys

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And finally completet cables on dashboard. Needed to find wiring for radio so I could install cables for radio and speakers

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For last job I wanted to wrap cables, but I didn't like some insulation tape on wires, so I removed it and find this bellow. Only hand twisted cables together plus 3 wires "extra". Somebody before me have put super connector on.

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Of course this can't be like this, so original is back!

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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V "QV" Q2 1990
Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTDm 2005

Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTD 2000 - ex
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993&1998 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1993 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex

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