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Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project and 164 2.0 TS

Postby killergame » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:31 am

One just like that..

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Alfa 164 3.0 QV 1993
Alfa 156 1.9 JTD 2000
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project and 164 2.0 TS

Postby killergame » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:31 am

My precious :mrgreen: Got them cheap.


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Alfa 164 3.0 QV 1993
Alfa 156 1.9 JTD 2000
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project and 164 2.0 TS

Postby killergame » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:34 am

And for the end. I have calculated a little bit how much will rebuild of 3.0 V6 12V cost me. I was quite surprised! Maybe, maybe 1500€ will be enough. And this is with almost all work done by me and material with my business discounts.

But it will be like new! :D
Alfa 164 3.0 QV 1993
Alfa 156 1.9 JTD 2000
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby alfa east » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:00 am

Solid report and progress. Thanks for the update!
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby killergame » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:03 am

Finally found some time for engine again.

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Firts it looked alright. Bu then I soo strange order marks, which indicated alrady opened engine :evil:

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Of course I didn't follow that strange order I, II, III...

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Fun part. Some marks from some dried liquid. Very few scratches. But they were honed already, so..

Cylinder 1

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Cylinder 2

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Cylinder 3

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Cylinder 4

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Cylinder 5

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Cylinder 6

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Looks like whole engine was took apart. And biuld very bad togethe. Who hones only cylinder and leaves old pistons rings? Look how much dirt oil ring has in it.. :?

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Pistons vere 5x B class and 1x A class.
Alfa 164 3.0 QV 1993
Alfa 156 1.9 JTD 2000
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby killergame » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:25 am

I got them measured. Not results I wanted. This V6 will cost me some serious money! :evil: All fucked up, because people rebuilding engines without knowledge.

All cylinders honed to C class. Cylinder 2 had some serious problems, because it is very worn.

Pistons. I don't know why, maybe already because to much big clearance or because they have left old piston rings. Pistons are ever bellow A class. You can't see any worn marks on them, but they are fucked up. Measured 2 times, to be sure.

Clearance between cylinder and piston should be 0.050 in 0.069 mm according to manuals specs. And mine have clearance bewteen 0.112 to 0.244 mm :roll: :|


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Piston specs. Mine bellow any class.

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Cylinder specs. Mine are let's say so, C class.

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And clearance between both as it should be.

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Would you say by look, that this is fucked piston? I wouldn't...

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So now I am looking for other used set of pistons and cylinder, that will be within manual specs. I already found 7-8 sets (new and used). So something will probably be ok. Last option is new set pistons and cylinder, which is about 700-1000€ :|
Alfa 164 3.0 QV 1993
Alfa 156 1.9 JTD 2000
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby alfa east » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:26 am

I hope you find a set within the standards at reasonable price!
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby 164super » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:48 pm

Hi, any progress on the engine rebuild? Mine is similar spec 3.0 V6 12V year 91. Did you manage to get decent used pistons?
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby Alfan » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:41 pm

I hope you find good parts, always a shame when things are not rebuilt properly!
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby killergame » Sat May 06, 2017 10:18 am

No progress on engine rebuild :( All used pistons are garbage. All way bellow under specs. Also A class liners to get, impossible. So rare stuff!

I don't have any other option, then buy new set of C class pistons for 600€ and then some used B class liners and bore them to proper diameter for pistons to have correct clearance.


Also update for what happened in meantime.

30 pistons and 22 liners and also got another 6 pistons. All for trash.

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Bought micrometer 0.01mm and measured all 30 pistons on 20°C.

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The best two! :lol: :roll:

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About car. Disassembling continuous. No rust so far.

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After that I took a break from pistons and liner and star cleaning block.

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Girlfriend having fun while I clean block :mrgreen:

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Answer from Jim K. But problem is. That I don't manage to get even to 0.100 clearance :lol:

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156 dreaming about V6 :lol:

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Second day of cleaning. Still not good. Engine gasket very "baked" on block and still few corners of dirt.

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I am cleaning engine block with toothbrush, inox cleaning spirale and dish sponge (for parts where bearings come and liners). Hopefully I don't take any material from block with inox cleaning spirale. Because head gasket is very hard "baked" on block.

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Alfa 164 3.0 QV 1993
Alfa 156 1.9 JTD 2000
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby killergame » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:02 pm

164 Super goes apart slowly, until it will be only chassis. Then some little rust to take care, primer 2K again and body. And then assembly of 3.0 starts :)

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Chassis really have only few early spots of rust. Nothing serious and no holes. Main šroblem of course like every 164. Rear arms to chassis. Underneath it doesn't look serious, but inside, I don't know.. I have 2 options. Try to save this as much as possible. Or cut it open and put on another one from spare chassis, which has zero rust! But that means cuting chassis, which is never same after that. Thoughts?

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Tripod reinforce for lifting points. After some time when body breaks, rust starts to eat this reinforce, until it is not strong enough and only falls in.

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And after little scratching..Not so bad anymore.

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And new like bottom part of chassis I got. This orange is only some italian sand.

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Other stuff. Finally manage to clean warehouse. I gave 2 full van parts for free. And also throw away a lot parts which were not perfect condition.

Parts same for all 164, some TD and TS.

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Only 3.0 parts

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A little bit of all :D

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Alfa 164 3.0 QV 1993
Alfa 156 1.9 JTD 2000
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby killergame » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:04 pm

Completely new Valeo clutch from original Alfa service. Old stock, so price was really funny. 33€ :lol: :mrgreen: Year of construction 20.5.1998 :mrgreen:

Image
Alfa 164 3.0 QV 1993
Alfa 156 1.9 JTD 2000
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex
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killergame
 
Posts: 78
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Country: Slovenia (si)

Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby killergame » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:20 pm

Bought new liners from 166 3.0 V6 24V engine. Looked line new, B class (92.99 - 93.00 mm), should have only 130k km. To be honest I expected them to be a little bit better. But they are also worn to avout 93.01 mm. And 1 day before delivery, seller couldn't get one liner from engine, so he destroyed it completely :|

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Destroyed

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I even manage to get dial bore gauge.

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Some measuring again

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Notes

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And final report hehe :mrgreen: I have decided to put it together with 0.11 mm of clearance piston-liner. That means 0.04 mm more then max recommended tolerance in Alfa book (0.069 mm). But as Jim told me, that I should not worry about 0.1 mm clearance, and that engine will work without any problem. Jim I take your word! :lol: :mrgreen:

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If I compare this clearance with one from friends 75 3.0 V6 12V, where it was 0.13 to 0.15 mm and engine worked great, went like crazy and didn't even consume almost nothing oil. Then mine engine with compare to that, should work like a new. It is not perfect. But it is around 800€ cheaper then with new pistons or pistons + liners. And if engine would do any problem, I will take it apart and buy new pistons.

And another interesting thing. Almost all liners are identical used (+ - 0.01mm). One from 12V, other 24V, different km after them, one honed, other not, one normally lubricated, other not (in friends engine, they have put new rods in old engine, so liners were not lubricated like they should be), other classes and measures. And after all this, they are still almost same used in the end. Hard to believe, but it is true. Measuring devices are 100% accurate (got them checked).
Last edited by killergame on Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alfa 164 3.0 QV 1993
Alfa 156 1.9 JTD 2000
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex
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killergame
 
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby killergame » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:12 am

Must have stuff. Engine stand. I must clean engine block a little bit more, to be perfect clean. Also waiting some original Alfa things from Italy. And then I can slowly start to assembly lower part of engine and go on heads check and rebuild.

Also waiting for ultrasonic cleaner 3L for cleaning of smaller parts.

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And while putting engine on stand, also cleaned and repaired hole thread.

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Alfa 164 3.0 QV 1993
Alfa 156 1.9 JTD 2000
Alfa 164 2.5 TD 1993 - ex
Alfa 164 2.0 TS 1991&1989 - ex
Alfa Giulietta 2.0 1974 - ex
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killergame
 
Posts: 78
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Re: Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV project

Postby alfa east » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:30 am

Great photos; I keep following the Restoration with interest!
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