Alfa 164 2.0V6 TB Super (1995) - MikeCZ

[MikeCZ]

Dear Alfisti!

I'm really glad to be joining your community
My name is Michal and I'm from east end of the Czech Republic.
My pursuit for 164 was long (I drove roughly 1500km and visited 3 countries before finding the right one), a bit stressful (as it was mostly disappointin and I was woried I will end up with some new car - as I made "smart" move and sold my 159 in advance before finding the right 164 Anyway at the end all turned up the good way and I managed to convince one fellow Alfisti from our Czech AR club http://www.alfisti.cz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (on which I participate in most time - nick MikeC) to sell me his beauty (he has 2 more Alfas - 90 and old Spider and now looking for another project).
This is my 3rd car - from Fiat Stilo (1.4 SW) i jumped into AR 159 2.4JTDm (first Alfar I have ever driven and I had to have it ). I was a good car - although I spent quite a lot of money on it and sold it with huge loss - but I just had to have 164
Now to my 164...
Car history:
It was brought to the CZ in 2013 from Italy with roughly 128.000km. I bought the car 3 weeks ago with close to 132.000km. As you can see it did not made much driving in the CZ - nothing in winter and besides that it was parked in a garage. Now I hit 132.500km.
So far only dissapointment is fuel consumption - after first refueling I got 10.1l/100km - which is not great for a daily car but I drive approximately 15k km per year so hopefully it won't ruin me Moreover I drive the way to enjoy the car
Condition:
It's in overal in very good shape - rust free (I plan to keep it that way despite it will be deaily - even during the winter - so I have an appointment for next week to have the bodywork coated with protective layer), with only some minor scratches. As for interior it has beige leather, unfortunately only manual seats, not heated and without the armrest).
Flaws:
- slightly leaking radiator - nothing serious - only few drops at a time, I'm keeping an eye on it and have plan to replace the radior during the spring
- few dead pixels on AC panel - that I won't be solving as it would come back eventually again
- sometimes clutch pedal is returning slowly - I suspect hose leading from clutch master cylinder - I know some guys on our club was looking into this
- leather interior - especialy driver seat - will need deep cleaning and some repair - It's not that bad but it's not a AAA condition
Job done:
- previous owner: timing belt, valves clearance adjustment, new rear shock absorbers + mounts, oil (of course ), replaced front head light - was broken,
- me: so far only oil + oil filter, fuel filter, air filter, collan, new tyres + 15" alloy wheels for winter - I got with car 16" alloy wheels which I will have for summer time. Oil will be replaced every 7.500km = once per 1/2 year,

And now some picture to so you can see my beauty (already on winter set of wheels)

[alfa east]

It looks like you found a good one! Low mileage and from an Alfa-lover (with main service jobs done for now). Yes, fuel consumption will not get better than that I think (even though I have only experience with V6 3 liter) but you have more or less the same performance as the 3 liter. What is the color code of your car (couldn't quite see it on the photos)?

Welcome to the site!

[MikeCZ]

Thanks for kind welcome
My car is in Bleu Genoa (477/F) color.
Yesterday my car returned from protective coating of underbody + cavities. Today I finished paiting the air box (as it was in terrible shape - paint was peeling and it was rusting). Also some basic cleaning of engine bay was done as next Saturday I'm goint to attend last Alfa meet here (and first for me with 164 - last year it was my very first Alfa meet with 159).

[alfa east]

Nice to hear; make some photos please and post them here!

[Alfan]

Welcome and thanks for the photos

Great that you waited and found the 164 for you! I hope you will enjoy it and the forum

[MikeCZ]

Yes, I belive so, I also hope I will be able to help others in some way
In the meantime I have fixed the issue with clutch pedal - master cylinder was leaking heavily (until it gave up completely). So this is fixed now + hose to it replaced as well (and I got rid off clutch damper).

Also I organized (little) order for our Alfisti club based on club prices that FCA is giving on some parts they have in stock for very long time, all parts are new genuine parts with 2 years of waranty and discounts are often arount 80-90% from original price.
Some examples from my 2.0V6 TB (prices INCLUDING VAT):
rubber intake sleeves betwen intake and chrome pipes (60513179) - approximately 12€ per set of 6
head gaskets (60566395 + 60566396) - appr. 19€ for both (in summary)
camshaft for right (rear) head (60579047; unfotunately the other one is not available any more) - 37€
...

So I made some small stockpiles of stuff which could be usefull in the future
Not sure if this info/offer is also here on the club (or any of you is aware, but I guess so). Anyway I think I will be making another order soon (minimal order price is 500€ EXCLUDING VAT) as there are some other people in our club wanting to get some parts (the list contains also FIAT, other AR models, LANCIA, etc.) so in case you are not aware and would like to get more info PM me and I can send you the list of available parts (there are engine/suspension/steering/chassiss/accessories parts available, not everything of course but some are real gems ). It should be possible to order them in any authorized Alfa/FCA Dealership.

Further photos of the car will follow as soon as weather will allow...

[alfa east]

That could be interesting! "FCA" is: Fiat Czech Republic? http://www.fiat.cz/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Or Fiat Chrysler Alfa Romeo?

[MikeCZ]

By FCA I mean Fiat Chrysler Alfa Romeo
Anyway I think separate thread thould be opened for this - maybe somethig only for registered users? (so it's not accessible for any visitor).
And I almost forgot, my car had better Christmas then me - at least present-vise: it got new radio (not so stylish as previous Clarion with MC cassets - but frankly speaking it was quite annoying for daily driving ), new rubber pads for break and cluth pedal and also new vent exhaust on passenger side - previous had vertical adjustment broken and I got new in that part sale for 3€

[alfa east]

Anyway I think separate thread thould be opened for

Yes, please do!

[MikeCZ]

Short update - I just reached 5000km with my Alfa (in approximately 4 months). So far so good
New faults:
- jammed passenger front seat - this luckily fixed itself, I was almost worried I will have to cut them to release the lock
- some small hole on exhaust - I'm scheduled for welding next Monday.
What was fixed:
- replaced radiator - that was quite a brain teaser - finally I found out that in order to remove old/insert new I had to remove the whole intercooler Anyway this was done eventually, just took longer then expected
- replaced left taillight - old one had small crack and I did not like the look of it I had a brand new one "in stock" - bought it from Alfa for 7.5€ Just now it's visible that one light is new - it's not faded as the other one.

[MikeCZ]

Closing by to 140tkm so here's little update:
- oil changed in engine and gearbox
- new spark plugs, new fuel hoses on rail
- some "bugs" fixed - not working passenger side door's interior handle, new lock on the same doors, replaced interior rear mirror, some plastic caps, etc.
- now to more serious things - we have meassured compressions - all cyllinder have cca 10 bars except for cylinder no. 4 which has 8+, but in general engine seemes healthy - old spark plugs were clean, it has power that it should have (considering the age ).
- the problem is that we took apart valve covers to check how it looks like and found out that two exhaust tappets were completely KO - one on rear and one on front head (cyllinder no. 4...). Now the thing is that I have spare all new tappets (exhaust and intake) and also rear head camshaft, but not for the front head :/ Considering time we had and resource (not enough of spacers for intake tappets) we just put 3 new exhaust tappets on front head and used 3 best from the old one on rear head to at least stop extra wear on the front head. And next plan of action will probably be to get two spare heads, do the complete refurbish of them and then just swap them with the one that are in the car (that way I can still use car for daily driving as a need to).
Attaching below picture of tappets - from top (left): new; "worst" of those which were reasonable and considered for re-use; two that were KO). I have discussed this with my colleague who has a lot of experience and seems that tappets and camshafts on TBs are beaing worn out quicker then on amotspheric engines :/

[alfa east]

Seems you caught the problem on time! Thanks for posting.

[Alfan]

Looks like you are well in control of maintaining your 164 properly

[MikeCZ]

Thanks guys, I'm trying to do my best
Last week we had some rainy days here and I found another flaw on my 164 - it started to leak water around roof anthena which one of the previous owners added
So first step was to make temporrary fix before it will stop to rain

I know weld the hole and repaint the whole roof would be a better option, unfortunately I don't have such possibility (both time and finance) right now, so new anthena had to do the job - testing in hand car wash passed succesfully
And this allowed me to fix my roof lining, which was already loose - old foam + glues was not good at some places and it was sagging.

So I cleaned it - both the shell and the fabric (had to wash it 5 times before it was clean )

I have reused the old fabric but it went quite OK - just two places are not perfrect and those are around fixing holes for sunshades.

Besides that I did some basic cleaning of the engine, repainted the valve covers (at the end I have decided to go original - silver - way), new wire insulation for injectors, etc. Now it looks a bit better then I bought it (picture for comparsion - when I bought it and now)

I know it's still not as spectacular as some cars here but considering it's a dailydriver at least I don't have to be ashamed to open the bonnet

[MikeCZ]

I have finally managed to make few photos with something better then a calculator

[alfa east]

Looking great!

[MikeCZ]

Just some short update as I hit 145.000km:
- tinted windows (rear 65%, front cca 15% in order to be able to pass MOT)
- changed front upper collumn (with lights) for the one which matches remote control fob I have so now my original remote control finaly works - it's such a pleasure not have to use key to unlock the car
- replacement of front breaks (discs + pads -> original discs were worn out almost completely, I think trip to Stelvio cut its share on them )
- replacement of front shock absorbers + upper mount + bearings, prachovek, dorazů (I left original coil springs as they looked OK and I did not want my car look like an SUV )
- front lights disassebled, cleaned and fitted with better light bulbs - now it finally shines reasonably

[MikeCZ]

A little move forward, as me and my friend in my Alfa have achieved not bad 5th place (out of 49, it was first time we have participated) in navigation race we have here in CZ (http://alfisti.cz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=21453" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) so Alfa has deserved some reward.
She got auto-dimming rear mirror, new oil (changed for the 3rd time in 3/4 year - I almost start to think it's starting to be some kind of deviation on my side ) and it got garage for (not only) winter parking as it has officially become "weekend car" for joy (but I have to say I miss daly-driving it :/)

[MikeCZ]

So first real problem - just 3 days after oil replacement, when I have checked 4 times I have oil topped up exactly to maximum on oil dipstick, when I was driving back from an Alfsti meeting (and pushing her quite hard I have to say - 180+ km/h), first I have observed small blued cloud behind the car which disappeared instantly - OK, I though, just some rubbished burnt from catalytic converter. After few hundreds meters another, a bit bigger cloud has appeared so I have slow down instantly. Then I have stopped on a red light and then big blue cloud has arise from below the bonnet and car start to run roughly. I have pulled down on the side immediately, had a look under the hood and all was covered by oil and oil dipstick has been shot out. I have let her to cool down a bit, stop the engine and then let her cool down a bit more. When I have checked the oil, it was still no maximum!
I have turned around and returned back home slowly, not pushing here too much. Each starting from a crossroad/red light/etc. has been followed by big blue smoke behind the car (I was so ashamed!) but got to garage. Also I have noticed some decrease in power and rough engine work around 2.000rpm, above 2.500 it was OK.
After discussion with other 164 owners I have suspected that oil separator get clogged, which caused raise of pressure in oil pan and shot the dipstick + oil out. So I have disassembled the whole intake manifold, cleaned all pipes, separator, IC, etc., adjusted exhaust tappets clearance and decided to measure cylinders compression just to be sure head gasket did not blow (no oil in water has been seen). I have measured 5 cylinders with good values but when I wanted to test the last one (cylinder no. 3) starter motor has turned but engine did not moved at all - I have verified it's not stuck by manually rotating the engine by crankshaft.
Therefore I have removed the whole exhaust (need new middle pipe anyway) and I started with exhaust manifold on rear had - which is great work to do, when you're lying under the car and have like 20cm between yourself and the car ). Anyway 4 bolts went out OK but on the 5th nut has snapped out - at that point I was really desperate because I could not imagine how I will pull out the rest of that bolt without removing engine out from the car... but eventually I got it out (which was such a big relief):

Anyway, second thing to fight with was starter itself - first two bolts were OK but I could not get the third bolt out - for an hour I was trying to put a ratchet on it. Then I reached out some suspicious "another" nut, which was starting just behind the starter. And it turned out someone has already refurbished it (there is a sticker on it) and modified the original nut:

The idea itself is not bad, but the implementation is terribly done - the extended nut head is so large it was jammed against engine block and I was not able to put a nut on it so it took me half an hour to pry it out and put a nut on it.
What makes me a bit unsure is that when I have tested the starter motor itself, it seems to work quite OK so I'm not exactly sure why it did not crank the engine... I have checked the flywheel and it has all teeth and looking OK.
Next plan of action is to install another (tested as OK) starter I will get from a friend, and put everything together and hopefully it will work.

[MikeCZ]

So today I have tried another starter motor... and the behaviour is exactly the same as with the previous one, so a bit of a mystery it is. Here is the behaviour:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC6U790GVTU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Also I have checked the flywheel (turning engine through the crankshaft) and it looks OK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y5kASAdsOw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Any ideas here? Seems that the starter motor is just not engaging with the flywheel, but I don't see reason why.

Another thing is that I inspected spark plugs carefully (previously I just pulled them out, saw they're covered in oil and put them aside) and found out that two of them have electrode melted down, so not a good sign (the one in the middle is for comparison how the other 4 are looking):

[MikeCZ]

So the fault has been finaly located. After some time of disassembling the engine (it takes some time, when you do it for the first time, don't know where to grab, etc. and doing it with engine in the car... I have today removed the both heads:

Unfortunately the fault is cracked piston on 3rd cyllinder and also cracked head... both probably due to faulty injector (which also caused the spark plugs mentioned in previous post, I did not had time to have them tested though so it's only assumption, but the most likely one):

So now the question is if I will go with complete TB repair or will start to look around for 3.0 12v engine for swap... I will see.

[alfa east]

Good that you found the reason. Someone in Berlin is selling a V6 12V engine for 550 EUR asking price:



Ebay-link

[killergame]

You can repair this engine without problem. All possible parts still available. I have just sold last month all new parts for 2.0 V6 TB engine rebuild to some customer.

For example. Set of 6 new OE Alfa pistons, cylinders and piston rings is 740€. And head you can repair it or get some used one.

[MikeCZ]

I know parts are available, but 740€ only for cylinders set is not the smallest amount
Anyway, I have already arrangement with a friend who has spare engine from 2.0 TB 164, will go to pick up it after Christmas.
In the meantime getting some other parts (engine mounts, etc.) and doing measurements for FMIC (as the stock one is... well tragic ) - this will be kind of painful as there's not much space for those, which have one-side piping and I can't use those with two-side piping as there's oil cooler blocking all the space that could be used for piping. And I'm afraid I will have to cut into the front bumper... Let's see, how it will end.

[MikeCZ]

Small but at least some progress:

New heart ready to be worked on...