164 Q4 air intake hose

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Alfan
Q4 owner
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Location: Denmark

Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Alfan » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:51 pm

Overall I think it looks good and the shape is right. Also a good thing that you managed to get the sensor plug right :)

In my car it is a very tight fit, so 1cm at each end sounds like a lot, but I guess that can be cut away? The correct way to put it in, is to remove the air filter housing, so you don't twist the hose too much.

About the pricing, I think that is very reasonable!
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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Artiz1
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Artiz1 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:00 pm

Yes, the extra lenght can easily be cut by using a cutting knife with a new blade. It's always better to make it just a bit longer that shorter :)
The silicone hose will most likely be installed easier since it is very flexible so you can twist and bend it the way you need and after that it pops right back to its original shape.
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

Alfamuppet
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Alfamuppet » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:55 pm

Looks great and the trimming would not be an issue. I will be glad to order one when they are ready.

Probably order the intake hoses at some point too!
Alfa 164 Q4 Proteo Red

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Artiz1
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Version 2

Post by Artiz1 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:56 am

Ok, so here is the revised version with the correct angle:

Image

Image

Now I can say that it's done and ready for production :)

The first hose has to go to Allan for test fitting. If he says it's ok - I can then sell it to everyone with a calm mind :)
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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Alfan
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Alfan » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:20 am

I look forward to testing it :D
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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Porto
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Porto » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:43 pm

Great! :D
AR GT 3.2l V6 24v Sport Coupé 'Distinctive', maart 2005, nero (current Bella)
AR 164 3.0l V6 24v Q4, jan 1996, proteo rosso (current Bella)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, july 1996, silver (sold)
AR 164 TDi Super, VM032B, nov 1995, dark blue (scrapped)

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ALFAHEIDA
3.5 V6 12V Savali owner
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by ALFAHEIDA » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:35 am

Great job!!
Alfa 164 QV(S) 12V 3.5 Project '91 /Alfa 164 3.0 12V Automatic '89

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Artiz1
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Artiz1 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:12 am

Thanks :)

According to the tracking info, the package is already in Sweeden, so Alfan should get it within the next few days :)

In the mean time, I've already setup the product page for the hose:
http://www.torque7.co/product/q4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Once Alfan confirms, that the hose fits, everybody will be able to just go ahead and place an order for one.

Note - if anyone has an unusable original hose that is beyond repair - contact me before the purchase - I'll exchange it for a FREE new silicone replacement! I really need to have a sample to make these as perfect as possible.

Thanks!
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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AlfaWhiz
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by AlfaWhiz » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:38 am

Sorry guys that I didn't manage to send my spare to Arthur, I was kind of living under a rock for a couple of months. :roll:

I'm glad to see things have progressed nevertheless, always good to have a source of spare parts! :)

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Alfan
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Alfan » Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:35 am

I received the new hose and put it in the car yesterday - unfortunately, I forgot the air temp sensor at home...

I blocked the opening and started the car, but the test drive will have to wait for next weekend.

It is easyer to fit, as it is more flexible than the original and I did not reduce the length, as it fits nicely. So all good for now, will update, when I have been for a test drive :)
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1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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Artiz1
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Artiz1 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:02 am

The test drive is more or less needed for you to see if only the hose was the problem of your air leaks :)
Regarding the new product - it's in place, it fits, it connects to all the surrounding bits :) What else is needed? :)
I suppose the "Q4 air hose alternative supplier" box can already be ticked ;) One more step in helping these cars to run for many more years!

I now can sell these and you guys can order these with confidence :)
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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Alfan
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Alfan » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:14 am

Yes, should have added that I expect air leaks to be gone, since idling was stable!
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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PGXII
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Location: Ljungsbro

Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by PGXII » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:12 am

Looks verk good and many thanks Artiz1 for the work done to keep our Q4 running.

Alfan, could you let us know how the hose is flexing under load. The engine is rocking back and forth a lot and I supose the hose isn't as flexible as the original in that direction. Rocking the engine with the clutch while applying the brakes may be a way to test this and film what happens under the hood. Just a thought.
164 QV -91
164 Q4 -94
GT V6 -05

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AlfaWhiz
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by AlfaWhiz » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:39 am

Well that is a silicone hose so it is definitely much more flexible than the original one. Think silicone muffin bakeware. :)

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Alfan
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Alfan » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:23 am

As I wrote, it is easier to fit, as it is very flexible, so I would also expect it to work well 'under load'.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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Alfan
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Posts: 1125
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Location: Denmark

Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Alfan » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:44 pm

I got the air temp sensor put in and went for a short drive.

Nothing unexpected to report, so now we have access to another part for our Italian cars, that have been unobtainable for a long time :)

I hope that this can motivate others to get more parts made available in good quality!
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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Artiz1
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Artiz1 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:22 am

To make parts specifically for the Q4 is not that simple. In fact - normally, it's barely possible.
Let's not forget that we are speaking about only around 1200 Q4 ever produced. How many survived? We'd be lucky if there are half of them on the road. That leaves us with a 600 car potential...compared to any other common model that was say produced one million times. Even if 1% of the owners would buy your part, that still would make 10 000 customers, unlike in case of the Q4, which would be 6...

To develop a certain part takes time, effort and material - all that directly translates to expenses. Then you have to calculate "is it worth it?" and "what's in it for me/my company?".

Honestly, in case of the air hose, the price I'm asking has a low profit margin, enough just to cover up the expensive silicone and the time involved in manufacturing one. Now since my company is very small, I can afford to develop products with much lower expenses, but even having a benefit like that got me spending about 400 eur in terms of total costs (3 samples, two times re-done stainless steel tool etc). With the profit margin like I have, I'd expect to cover these with about 15 sold hoses. With the demand level first seen in this thread, that was sort of expected. But right now I see that it will be good if at least 5 would be sold (the 15 would possibly be sold maybe in a few years time).
That said, I sort of paid from my pocket in order to keep your cars running :)

So an answer to the question "is it worth it?" is a huge "NO". But an answer to the "what's in it for me?" - is a huge pleasure, self confidence, and a big smile seeing a happy Q4 owner like Alfan that won't have to worry about that particular part anymore!

That's why companies don't develop any products for the Q4, it's just not economical worth it...
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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Alfan
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Alfan » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:31 am

I fully understand that volume matters, which is also why I appreciate the work you are doing :)

My comment about the possibility of having other parts made, was also related to general 164 models, where there are still quite a few running. I actually think there are very few specific Q4 parts, that are not made of metal.

So keep up the good job! :D
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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Artiz1
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Artiz1 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:07 am

I believe the best thing is to start a thread (if there isn't already one) about which parts are not available anymore and then it may be possible to find companies like mine, that could possible be willing to do them for the 164. As you said, the 164 in general was a common car and the production figures are not that bad, but still it may be worth to approach an enthusiast for work like that. As most of the companies are orientated in the modern eco boxes that unfortunately drive the world today :)
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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Tamariini
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Tamariini » Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:07 am

I've already sold my 164 Q4 so my need for the hose is gone by now.

I linked this product of yours to a Finnish Alfa Romeo bbs, there are at least 5 to 6 Q4 owners which i believe have same problems with splitted hoses (at least one has, who has my ex-Q4)

http://www.alfabbs.fi/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32395" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Really appreciate your effort on this, even when i don't have Q4 anymore :) thumbs up!
--Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T 2017--
--Fiat 500 2016--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 Turbo 1988--
--Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 V6 1987--
--Alfa Romeo 75 2.5 V6 24v 1986--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 2.0 TS 1972--
--Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 12v 1999--
--Maserati 3200 GT 2001--

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Artiz1
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Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Artiz1 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:53 am

Thanks for the support, Tamariini! :)

Looking at your profile picture it looks like that you have a much more interesting toy than the Q4 :D
'97 164 Super 2.5TD - donor car;
'97 164 Super 3.0L 12V Automatic - in assembly process;

('16 Skoda Octavia - daily driver)

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Alfan
Q4 owner
Posts: 1125
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Location: Denmark

Re: 164 Q4 air intake hose

Post by Alfan » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:54 am

Tamariini wrote:I've already sold my 164 Q4 so my need for the hose is gone by now.

I linked this product of yours to a Finnish Alfa Romeo bbs, there are at least 5 to 6 Q4 owners which i believe have same problems with splitted hoses (at least one has, who has my ex-Q4)

http://www.alfabbs.fi/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32395" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Really appreciate your effort on this, even when i don't have Q4 anymore :) thumbs up!
You may buy one at a later point ;) Thanks for promoting it locally!
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

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