Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

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sportston
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by sportston » Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:52 pm

I just took my old one into the motor factors and got them to help me find one that was a close match. The one I got came off an Alfa I just can't remember which model. Sorry.

sportston
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by sportston » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:30 pm

Man. You know I should never have mentioned that about my plastic elbow never breaking! Guess what happened yesterday? Yes broken plastic elbow and all my brake fluid in a puddle on my driveway.
I'm gonna open a new post about this too, but have you had your spring broken inside the master cylinder?
Decided to see if I could add an extra spring or similar to make my pedal return properly, only to find when I took the master cylinder apart that my spring was broken into several pieces. This was why I replaced the old master cylinder!
Grrrrrr.

KY2006
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by KY2006 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:11 pm

Sorry to know that. No, I didn't have a broken spring the first time. Not sure about this time. My mechanic is yet to check it out - anyway, symptom was the same. Car driven and parked - everything in order. On return to the car after shopping, red warning light came on with brake/fluid oil patch found on the floor. Replenished brake/clutch fluid in vain as it quickly drained to the floor. Let me know how you fix this. My car is still grounded - have to find a machine shop to work out a permanent solution.

sportston
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by sportston » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:48 pm

I may have a solution.
Here are my possible remedies.
1. Replace plastic elbow with a brass 8mm elbow.
2. Replace clutch master cylinder with one off a Saab 9000. The Saab item has a metal elbow! AND IT LOOKS EASIER TO FIT!!! The Saab 9000 was based upon the same floorpan and shared some of the mechanicals with the Fiat Croma, the 164 and a Lancia (can't remember which model). I have yet to determine if this is possible, but they look as if they would fit, judging by the pictures.
3. Replace plastic elbow with another one off the spare brake master cylinder I have in my garage.

I have yet to choose which, but I am seriously considering ordering the Saab item.

sportston
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by sportston » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:42 pm

I've given it some thought and I have managed to work out why the plastic elbows keep breaking.
You may already have figured it out, but I'm a bit slow at working out the obvious.
The reason is heat.
In the right hand drive models the master cylinder is behind the engine not too far away from the exhaust manifold.
This heat cooks the plastic elbow causing it to turn brittle and snap.
That is why it only happens to the CLUTCH master cylinder and not the BRAKE master cylinder, which is on the opposite side of the engine bay. And that will be why Saab designed their own master cylinder with a metal elbow, to protect it from heat damage!
This problem is not likely to happen with left hand drive models because the master cylinder is on the other side.

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alfa east
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by alfa east » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:11 am

Yes, that makes perfect sense. I will follow up closely on your experience with the Saab cylincer.

sportston
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by sportston » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:31 pm

There may be another alternative if you wanted to replace with the same as oem instead of saab.
Does this look familiar?
Image

Yes it looks exactly the same as the original RHD Alfa part with the exception of the actuating rod.
I wonder if it would work ok if you swapped your old actuating rod over? (very easy to do. just remove one circlip and a washer)
"What is it off of?" I hear you cry.
And the answer iiiissss.....
A Mk1 Fiat Punto!
However I am still pinning my hopes on the improved Saab version.

sportston
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by sportston » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:26 pm

Here is a pic of the saab 9000 clutch master cylinder. If you want the part number it is LM15002
Saab 9000.[84>98]. - [Clutch] Master Cylinder. Not to be confused with LM15001 which is also for a Saab 9000 but is a different shape.
Image

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alfa east
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by alfa east » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:35 am

Thanks for posting. Hope they send you the right one 2nd time around!

KY2006
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by KY2006 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:34 am

Great analysis and find you got there! I just realize that there are some local car factors in UK which are selling TRW made clutch master, but the Saab version has the advantage of a metal elbow which would overcome the problem of heat from the engine for RHD 164. Anxiously await your trial of those clutch master cylinders.

sportston
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by sportston » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:16 pm

KY2006 wrote:Great analysis and find you got there! I just realize that there are some local car factors in UK which are selling TRW made clutch master, but the Saab version has the advantage of a metal elbow which would overcome the problem of heat from the engine for RHD 164. Anxiously await your trial of those clutch master cylinders.
Thanks. And I anxiously await the part so I can use my car again. I'll post on here the results.

sportston
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by sportston » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:00 pm

Latest progress can be found on this topic here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1033&p=6865#p6865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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alfa east
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by alfa east » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:20 pm

Yes, I read that incl. all the photos; much appreciated for all RHD owners. Now that Saab has gone belly up does that mean that soon that alternative part supply will dry up as well? Or since it is not an OEM part the manufacturer will probably keep on selling/producing it as there is demand for it?

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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by sportston » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:38 pm

KY2006 wrote:Thanks, Tom. I think conversion from a near match would be the way out, either adjusting the pipeline or whatever. Problem is, which one (not necessarily Alfa) is a close match?
If you check my other thread (mentioned above) you can find out how I got around the problem with the Saab unit. I finished the job today and it works lovely! So much lighter and easier to control and no future problems with plastic elbows sheering off! There are a fairly comprehensive account of how to do the mod and what part number to order. It fits the 12v V6 quite easily but you have to lengthen the actuating rod and bend the output pipe around to fit at the end instead of the side (not very difficult to do). I would think it would fit the 24v too.

164zaid
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by 164zaid » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:57 pm

Hello.

*Alfa Romeo 164 RHD clutch master compatibility*

Good news! The alfa romeo 164 RHD and 166 clutch master pump are the exact same part!

I had a bad master on my RHD 164 TS and got a Delphi LM80243 clutch master which is originally made for the alfa 166 (not sure if LHD or RHD), and it turned out to be a perfect replacement! No modifications needed. Direct fit!

Thought I'd mention it because I've seen many posts where RHD owners have been seeking assistance with sourcing a replacement for their RHD 164s.

My original clutch master part number: Benditalia 1421983

Replacement part: Delphi LM80243

Other brands:
Bosch- 21983
TRW-PND246
Alfa Romeo - 60815343
LPR- LPR2122
Brembo - C23008

Hope this information helps RHD owners with clutch master problems!

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Alfan
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by Alfan » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:40 am

Great info! :D

I suggest you also add this info to the section 'Alternative parts'.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 550.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 270kkm
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning 55kkm
2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Multiair TCT Bianco Pastello 155kkm
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 90kkm

KY2006
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by KY2006 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:08 pm

Hmm, it is intriguing to hear belatedly that the RHD's 166 clutch master cylinder is a perfect fit for the 164's. My mechanic has been fixing Alfa for many years so this latest finding came as a shock. Would be interested to see how a RHD clutch master cylinder looks like - I posted pictures of the 164's earlier in this thread.

For me, I reported before that my permanent solution was to ask my mechanic to alter the fluid pipes in the engine bay so clutch master cylinder of the LHD version can be fitted and use instead.

75evo
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Re: Clutch Master Cylinder for QV24 RHD

Post by 75evo » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:17 pm

Hi guys,

My mom's RHD 164 3.0 V6 12V also had a clutch MC problem. After much searching I finally bought her a Lancia Delta Integrale LHD MC and it seems to fit. Not sure if this is the same as the RHD 164 24V unit though.

She seldom drives the car, could be part of the problem. She's got a 156 GTA she usually drives. But it's good to know that the 164 shares parts with other.... very hard to find cars.....

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