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Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:30 pm

I checked my invoice from clutch replacement in 2004 and the number 71734937 is for that change.

That number is not among the reference numbers in your link, so my guess is no...
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:52 pm

There was another one that I posted that claimed it was the 71734937 clutch but it also stated it would fit a 164 Syper, so I'm not sure about that.

The clutch kit in the link I included in my previous post seems to cross reference with the Alfa part number above, but I need to double check this as I was looking at lots of them today. It was posted by Maffia Alfista (I think) in an older thread, so I think he might be right. I'll check again tomorrow. Cross referencing part numbers is so much fun... :)
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:54 pm

Thanks for checking your invoice by the way, I appreciate your help.
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby alfa east » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:21 am

HaydnW92 wrote:Cross referencing part numbers is so much fun... :)

I believe Haydn couldn't find a "sarcasm-smiley"....
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:43 am

alfa east wrote:
HaydnW92 wrote:Cross referencing part numbers is so much fun... :)

I believe Haydn couldn't find a "sarcasm-smiley"....

This one is probably the closest we have on this site -> :roll:
:)

After checking the part numbers again today it seems you were right Alfan, some of those clutches seemed correct but were listed as 230mm whereas the Q4 should be 247mm. Which brings me back to this one, which has the right part number:
http://www.ricambinuovi.com/store/_uk/p ... _cerca=164
Though it also says it fits a 164 Super so I've emailed them to double check.

I ran the Q4 again this morning, only to move it slightly, but she seems to idle a bit worse than before :( there's quite significant vibration through the car and you always think she'll stall when returning to idle. I need to investigate, I think it might be the idle valve or a vacuum problem.
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:02 pm

The numbers on the unit seems different from the one fitted in mine, but of course worth asking them.

I can't remember if you have had the diagnostic sw connected to the Motronic, if not, it would be time to try it ;)
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfist » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:43 am

I have new Original Q4 clutch in stock
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:38 am

I think you're right Alfan, I'll connect my laptop to the car soon.
I got a reply from the company selling the clutch kit (Ricambi Nuovi). They confirmed the Alfa part no. 71734937 and also the Valeo part no. 287090. So, based on an old post of yours Alfan, which I have borrowed :wink:
Alfan wrote:
Maffia_Alfista wrote:Alfa original 71782020


This is not the parts number for the clutch I just ordered, that is 71734937. I put Photos in my photobook, but I didn't measure the thickness or diameter (it says 247 on the disc). You can see some numbers on the photos, Valeo number is 287090.

Arjen, is the French version of the Q4 manual complete and have you scanned it all?

This looks like the right clutch kit. :)

I have the day off work today so I think I'll slacken the auxiliary belt and see if I can confirm which part is making so much noise. I'm almost certain it's the alternator bearing. I may also fit my new (used) door cards, I bought a set of black leather ones in very nice condition for £70 a few weeks ago. :)


Alfist wrote:I have new Original Q4 clutch in stock


Thanks for that Alfist, I'll let you know if I still need one - I've agreed to buy the one from Ricambi Nuovi.
Do you have a Q4 instrument cluster available?
I could also do with some new boot carpets for the Q4... current ones are damaged and/or missing.

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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:07 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhc0YccFClA
There's a very slight sound from one of the auxiliary idlers, but just listen to the alternator bearing at the end :shock:
It sounds like spanners in a washing machine :lol:
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:24 pm

HaydnW92 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhc0YccFClA
There's a very slight sound from one of the auxiliary idlers, but just listen to the alternator bearing at the end :shock:
It sounds like spanners in a washing machine :lol:


Some more work :)
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby alfa east » Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:22 am

HaydnW92 wrote:Do you have a Q4 instrument cluster available?
I could also do with some new boot carpets for the Q4... current ones are damaged and/or missing.

You can also check with "alfist" (see also "Wanted"-section first topic), he has 8 Q4s which he parts for spares.
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:28 pm

Thanks Alfa East, I asked him about this in another post but I'll ask him again sometime.

A few parts have finally arrived for the Q4; a replacement brake booster valve, a new seal for this valve, and the new alternator. I planned to fit them today but I seem to have pulled a muscle in my chest so it'll have to wait for now. :?

I had to fire up the Q4 this morning to move her out of the way to get another car past her. She's not happy at all, hopefully once I've fitted these new parts she'll run much better and I can finally take her for a 'proper' drive.

Out of curiosity - does anyone have any thoughts regarding what this car might be worth? I'm talking about after I've got it running properly and done a few more jobs such as the clutch and perhaps had the bumpers repainted.
When I arranged the insurance I had to guess a value for it as I really don't know what its value is. It's in good overall condition, it's very rare and has some interesting modifications. Recaro seats, performance brake discs, pads and flexible hoses, full timing belt and auxiliary belt service, new starter motor, rare 18" Alfa 'Jet Fin' wheels...well, if you've read through this thread you will know all the car's features. One issue of course is that I don't have the service history for the car prior to my ownership, which will naturally impact the value.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:38 pm

Time for an update.

The Q4 is now running much better than before. I replaced the throttle potentiometer and coolant temp sensor to begin with as the alfa 164 diagnostics software was picking up faults with both of them. The car ran a little better after that and my coolant gauge now stays still rather than waving up and down.

I took my dad for a drive and he was sure the car was misfiring - I admit this is something I struggle to detect but he was certain. A few days later I bought some new NGK Iridium spark plugs and a couple of new Bosch coils and when I started to fit these parts, upon removing the intake plenum I saw the coil pack for cylinder 1 wasn't connected properly - the metal clip was slightly bent so the connecter must have come loose. So I fixed that, fitted my new parts and went for a drive.

WOW. What a difference... this Q4 now feels so much quicker than before. The torque is impressive, I can accelerate from 40mph in 4th gear and the car just pulls away. I usually take a nice route through some countryside villages when I go for a drive, so by the time I was coming back the car had warmed up nicely. I decided to put my foot down while leaving a village (entering a 60mph open road) in third gear and the Q4 surged forwards, in fact the front wheels spun a little bit and there was definitely some torque steer so I'm not sure if the 4wd is working properly... it was good fun anyway. I took a friend for a drive in it yesterday, he was really impressed - not just with the performance, but with the overall 'feel' and quality of the car and the amount of electrical toys it has.

I really, really like this car! :D



(But I'm still dreading the clutch change!)

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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby alfa east » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:59 am

Great to hear and read! I can't really comment on the torque steer as I don't have the 4WD and yes, the regular 164s do suffer from that (more so in the 3 liter I presume than the 2 liter).
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:35 pm

The torque steer in my old 164 QV was loads of fun! But it's significantly worse in the Q4, I think the 4wd might have been asleep...

I went for a drive in the Q4 yesterday, I decided to take the longer route (rather than the shorter way which goes through two villages). I'm glad I did because shortly after setting off, the horn suddenly started blaring and it wouldn't stop... I had to quickly pull over, disconnect the battery and remove the horn relay. It seems this Alfa is determined to test my patience :lol:

Despite this I treated it to an early Christmas present. I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on these. I haven't fitted them yet, or even seen pictures of them fitted to a 164. They must be extremely rare?
Image

(Sorry for the poor quality picture - they are Zender stainless sill covers).
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby alfa east » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:52 pm

On the Dutch site you can find a scan of the original Zender brochures:
http://www.alfa164register.nl/library/s ... nder_(1997)/&currentPic=2

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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:18 pm

Thanks for that alfa East. I have a few old Zender brochures but I don't recall seeing those pictures - i'll have to look through them again. I can't believe how much stuff they used to make for Alfas!
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:52 pm

It sounds like you are getting it all sorted - with only a couple of 'minor' things left :)

I sent you a pm some time ago about the Zender rear wing, if you are still interested, let me know.

I have taken my Q4 out for winter use, but ABS and 4WD are not working completely, so there will be some work for next year...
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:03 am

Hi Alfan. Yes, sometimes I think I am... but then another problem occurs :lol:
I'm certain my 4WD isn't functioning properly either, hopefully for both of us the solution is something simple. I hope your ABS problem isn't something serious too, as that could be complicated to fix.

I remember receiving your PM about the Zender wing, I'm certain I replied via email but I'll send you a message now.

I've also continued the wet sanding and polishing of the set of Zender Milano wheels I'm refurbishing at home as I want these to be completed now. I seriously underestimated how long this process would take!
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfamuppet » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:58 pm

Haydn

If you have torque steer then the 4x4 is not working! You need to plug it in to my tester to see what is up.

I had torque steer on mine once when I turned the system off with the Tester accidently and it was not fun in the wet

Let me know if you want to borrow / meet up

Cheers

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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:27 pm

Hey Daryl,

Hopefully I'll have a chance to do exactly that at some point in the upcoming year. In the meantime I guess I can focus on a few other issues she's having. She drives really nicely otherwise!

The torque steer was alarming to say the least - with the extra torque of the 3.5, I'm glad the road was dry :lol:

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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:10 pm

I'm wondering if my Q4 has a gearbox issue. When changing into 1st or 2nd there's a distinctive 'click' noise, it doesn't seem to do this in any other gears though. I was out driving the car earlier and not only was it making th click noise, there was also a little bit of a clunk when pulling away in first gear. Hopefully a fellow Q4 owner can shed some light on this. I already know the 4wd is not always working, and 5th gear doesn't work. So I'm wondering whether it makes sense to replace the gearbox when I change the clutch (which will probably be sometime this year).

Thoughts?
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:22 pm

Also, does anybody know if the car's original wiring loom will have the connectors for the heated Recaro rear seats, perhaps tucked to one side? Or is this something I will have to fabricate myself?
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:08 pm

I can't say that I have experienced the gearbox issues, you mention. 5th gear does not work at all?

I am quite sure that there are no wires for heated rear seats in mine - and I have had the rear seat out quite a few times to get to the fuel tank...
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:42 pm

Unfortunately yes, 5th gear hasn't worked since I got the car running again. Though I haven't tried it recently. You just can't engage the gear, it's as though something is blocking the gear lever from entering the gate properly.

I had a look for extra connectors under the rear seat, I did find one but it's a two pin connector, whereas I need two 4 pin connectors. So it looks like I'll be wiring them in manually.
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