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Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:00 pm

I have sent you another PM about the rear wing, let me know if you received it or not.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:11 pm

I have received it, and replied. Thanks Allan. :)
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:16 pm

Well it looks like my Biturbo project will have to wait a bit longer as I think I need to spend some more money on the Q4.

The first item on my list is to change the gearbox oil. I went for a drive today and something doesn't feel right, it changes gears ok but it's not as smooth as it should be and in the lower gears there's an audible 'clicking' noise. It sounds quite cool, like changing gear in an old racing car :D but I don't think it's suppose to do that! After spending some time on google, I think my gearbox oil choices are Tutela Technyx 75W-85 or Pentosin G4 SAE 80W.

I have also planned to have a stainless exhaust made for the car but I have been delaying this. Well, I think this needs to be fitted sooner rather than later, the exhaust is leaking at the downpipes and it's making all sorts of noises now. I can't live with it any more :x it's a shame as I like the current noise of the car (apart from the leaking noise obviously) but I guess a stainless exhaust can only be a good thing.

I have also mentioned the fact that the clutch needs to be replaced in the next year. If changing the gearbox oil doesn't 'fix' the gearbox I'll probably have to fit a replacement gearbox at the same time. I know of a few places I can get one, but this will not be cheap :(

There's also a brake fluid leak I think, I monitor the car's fluids closely and the fluid level in the reservoir is very slowly falling. The coolant and engine oil are always fine though.


Other non-mechanical jobs coming up this year include:

Fitting my Zender Milano wheels and lowering springs
Fitting a Zender rear spoiler (courtesy of Alfan :) )
Replacing the instrument cluster with a correct Q4 item. This means it will use KMs whereas I need MPH, but it also has the correct layout for the warning lights!!

...And probably many other things I have forgotten about!
1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
1992 Maserati 222 4V (project)
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:38 pm

HaydnW92 wrote:There's also a brake fluid leak I think, I monitor the car's fluids closely and the fluid level in the reservoir is very slowly falling. The coolant and engine oil are always fine though.


Are you sure it is not the clutch being the problem (same reservoir)?
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:20 am

You could be right there Alfan, the bleed screw on the clutch slave used to leak slightly but I was sure I had fixed that. Worth checking it of course.

I've also ordered one of the silicone Q4 intake sleeves, am I right in saying that you have one of these?
1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:39 am

I don't have an extra intake sleeve, the silicon part was made from my original,

You have to order it from this site or ebay.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:37 am

Oh I knew that, I was just wondering what you thought of it - good product?
1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:35 pm

Read it too fast ;)

Yes, I have used the car all winter with it and no problems of any kind, so I can definitely recommend it.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:06 pm

That's good news, mine will hopefully be on its way to me soon. I hope it will fix the rough-running issues, I reckon the split intake hose and the exhaust leak are both responsible for the car's rough-running problem. Knowing my luck, it will be something else entirely :roll:

As for the exhaust, the Q4 is now booked in to have a full stainless system built by a local specialist. This will include new front pipes, 2x 200 cell sports catalysers, the centre pipe and the rear section. The only slight issue is that I'll have to wait til the 15th of May to have it built as they're really busy; I see this as a good sign though. They have excellent reviews too. The link below shows off some of their work. This exhaust won't be cheap, but is roughly the same price as buying a complete new standard exhaust system so I certainly won't complain. Besides, you get what you pay for with exhaust building. I'm looking forward to seeing (and hearing) what it's like.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Www.stgperf ... 8174020061

After the exhaust has been built and my new intake hose is fitted, the Q4 should run much better and I can relax a bit more when driving it. :)

All this expense unfortunately means that work on my Biturbo project has stalled for now. The Alfa comes first!
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby MikeCZ » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:13 pm

I know it's far future, but once you will have that exhaust, please upload video of how it sounds ;)
Mine mid-pipe is also at the end of it's life already so I'm thinking about asking some local companies who bend and weld stainless to do it for me. But we shall see, I have other things to solve first :D
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:35 pm

Oh I definitely will! :D

By the way - you have just reminded me that you sent a PM a while ago that I never replied to. Sorry about this! I didn't receive a notification or email telling me about your message, I only saw it recently when Alfan told me to check my inbox for a message from him.

Your message was about reprogramming the key fob wasn't it? I think I used the information in the following thread:
http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?showtopic=21459

I bought a brand new fob and followed the instructions, however it does not work properly as it activates/deactivates the alarm and remote central locking one at a time, not together. So one press will activate the alarm, and pressing again will lock the doors but also deactivate the alarm :roll: I gave up in the end!

It probably can be done, but I just couldn't quite understand it all. Maybe the instructions were not correct for a 164, or I just lacked the patience required :lol:
Sorry that I can't be of more help to you!

Haydn
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby MikeCZ » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:49 pm

Hey,

Yeah, thanks for at least late reply, I was worried I have offended you somehow :P :lol:
Anyway I don't have alarm unit (at least I'm not aware of it) so that should not be a problem for me.
I just get my hands on used key fob from a friend - unfortunately I don't have old one and also don't have it's code :roll:
But in thread you posted author stated he can help with unlocking the locked receiver even without the code - but I guess he will need to get his hands on the car and he is from the UK - so not an option for me :D
In the worst case scenario my friend still has receiver unit which from the car to which key fob belongs so it should be paired and I will swap the whole unit.
Thanks for the link :)
Cheers.
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:04 am

I'm wondering if somebody can provide some input here.

I've fitted a new intake sleeve to the Q4 which I assumed would solve the car's lumpy idle/stuttering problems, as the old unit is split (but taped up). The good news is that the engine seems to have stopped stuttering at low revs and now seems to rev more smoothly. However the bad news is that the engine still doesn't run as smoothly as I would like it to.

This is worst when the engine is cold; once it has warmed up it runs better with a smoother idle. So I checked a few things in the engine bay and this is what I found:

1) Unplugging the air intake temp sensor makes no difference to the idle (surely it should make a difference?)
2) Unplugging the throttle position sensor makes no difference to the idle (surely it should make a difference?)
3) Unplugging the idle control valve makes no difference to the idle (this definitely should make a difference!)
4) I have previously replaced the plastic valve and the seal on the pipe that goes from the intake plenum to the brake booster. However, I noticed if I applied a bit of pressure to this valve (pushing it slightly more 'in' to the booster) the idle improved a little. I don't know how I could have got this to seal any better, I'm sure it's in properly? Maybe I should add some sort of sealant?

So yes...input is appreciated.
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:38 pm

I cannot remember all the stuff you already have done on the car, so here are my thought:

- Connect to the ECU and read out possible error codes
- Make sure lambda probes are ok
- How does it drop in RPM when pressing the clutch when above 3000RPM, fast, slow or?

I would agree that you should get some kind of change in idle when unplugging those connectors, so maybe check that the connectors are good.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:39 am

I've not connected the ecu to the laptop yet to read error codes, so I can't comment on the first two suggestions yet. I have, however, discovered that there is no voltage at the connector for the idle valve? :?

I used my father's 24v Qv as a reference. Turned the key to 1st position, tested the idle valve plug. 12.3 to 12.5 volts on each side of the plug.

Performed the same test with my Q4. Key to 1st position, tested across both sides of the plug with a multimeter - nothing at all. So that would explain why the idle valve isn't working!

How is my car running and idling? :lol:
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:32 pm

Fixed the idle issue!

I checked the colours of the wiring connectors and found that one of the knock sensors and the idle valve had swapped plugs. I swapped them back and went for a drive - no more stuttering, no more stalling and it feels like the engine has some of its power back.

It just goes to show, sometimes te fix it simple!
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:47 pm

HaydnW92 wrote:Fixed the idle issue!

I checked the colours of the wiring connectors and found that one of the knock sensors and the idle valve had swapped plugs. I swapped them back and went for a drive - no more stuttering, no more stalling and it feels like the engine has some of its power back.


Been there, done that! Great that it was a simple fix 8)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:50 pm

Indeed Allan, it makes a nice change!

More progress on the Q4 - my custom-built rear lowering springs are now fitted, and so are my Zender Milano wheels which are now finished. I planned to fit my front lowering springs (and new swivel bearings) today, but my work hours have changed so I'll try to do this tomorrow instead. I will upload pictures when they're fitted (and after the car has been cleaned...)

I would add that Q4 owners may be wise to check their rear springs. Last summer I replaced one of mine as it was broken on the bottom coil. Yesterday while replacing the rear springs I found that the spring on the other side was also broken, in the same place but it was hidden under the plastic sleeve so it wasn't easy to spot. This is something to keep an eye on I think.
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:58 pm

As promised, some fresh pictures of the Q4 taken today. She's now all cleaned up ready for her first show (and the first show of the year for me) - Spring Alfa Day here in the UK. :D
Attachments
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1994 Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 Savali Cosworth
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby alfa east » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:53 pm

Wow, it looks the part! Maybe you can shoot some more pix at the Alfa Spring Day?
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:25 pm

Considering before and after, you have come a long way!!!

It is really looking great again, enjoy the drive 8)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Maffia_Alfista » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:35 am

Nice rescue. It looked really sad in the first pictures now it looks beautiful :D

Some more pictures and a video of some driving with the new exhaust would be nice :)

Does the 4wd work now?
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby HaydnW92 » Tue May 09, 2017 12:07 pm

Hi guys, thanks for the kind words.

Maffia_alfista - I'm pretty sure the 4wd still isn't working. I haven't checked this to see why though.
I was really pleased with the car and it was driving well. However last weekend while driving to a car event I made a mistake with the gear change, I missed 6th gear and accidentally ground reverse gear (only for a split second) at 60mph. Since then, reverse gear only engages occasionally, it takes roughly 20 attempts to get it to engage. The rest of the time, the gear lever enters reverse but when you bring the clutch pedal back up the car grinds and the gear lever jumps forward.

I changed the oil and inspected the linkages/cables/etc. This made no difference, I can't see what's wrong. So I think I need a new gearbox...

...does anyone have any suggestions about what might be causing this? I think I've just broken/damaged the gear itself. It does seem strange that the car will still engage reverse gear occasionally, and when it does, it does it perfectly just like before. No grinds or anything like that. But most of the time, it won't engage and will grind.

I would also appreciate some tips on how to remove the gearbox. I hope it's not an engine-out job...

Haydn
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Alfan » Sat May 13, 2017 9:03 am

Not good, but it seems that the locking mechanism does not work properly, since you could do this in the first place.

I would look at that, before doing anything else. Otherwise, you could buy the new gearbox found on ebay for 1700 euro....
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo Rosso 535.000km
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy 260.000km
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Competizione 60.000km
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Re: Alfa 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali' progress thread

Postby Ladin164QV » Tue May 16, 2017 1:15 pm

Wow, amazing story and amazing car! Iam sorry about the gearbox, never heard about this reverse issue on Getrag...

There is auction from 0,-, but whats the reserve... :roll:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-Gang-Getrie ... 0209411825
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