1996 Alfa 164 Cloverleaf (I'm back...)

[HaydnW92]

Hello everyone,

Some of you may remember me, I had a fairly popular thread on this forum which was all about my modified Q4. Unfortunately that didn't end very well for me - for those unaware, I became fed up with the car and sold it in September 2017, following a gearbox problem that I couldn't seem to fix. I also had severe issues with my back at the time so was struggling to work on the car. I didn't expect to own another 164 at any point in the near future.

I've since owned a 1999 GTV V6 6 Speed, followed by a 1998 156 V6 6 Speed, and now my current 1999 GTV V6 5 Speed. All of them were/are nice cars, and none of them were projects. But I just couldn't really enjoy them as much as I wanted, or as much as I used to enjoy my 164s. I kept looking at 164s for sale, not really looking to buy one, but just looking anyway.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago - I'm now working more hours in a different job, my back problems are pretty much gone thanks to physio and daily exercise, and I'm once again thinking how much I'd like to have another 164 project, preferably a 24v Cloverleaf as I've previously owned a 12v Cloverleaf and the Q4 of course. I wanted one that needed a bit of mechanical work but preferably didn't need much bodywork/paint. The perfect car appeared on eBay... 1996, 88k miles, loads of history, all keys present, lots of spares included. I knew it was 'the one' so I bought it!

The car is due to arrive at my home on Sunday the 10th of November. Any work on the car might have to wait until after Christmas, but I hope to have it back on the road next Spring.
I thought I would post a thread on here if people are interested, same as I did with my Q4?

Here's a few pictures of the car from the advert.

Edit: This is also my 200th post!

[Alfan]

The 164 is addictive - welcome back

More photos of course! And an update on the Maserati is also of interest...

[AlfaWhiz]

Welcome back Haydn! Good to have you back in the club.

I did follow your thread on your former Q4, indeed that's what happens with those Alfas, you sell them same way as you buy them - on an impulse.

Glad to hear you're recovering and congrats on the purchase, she's a stunner! Definitely looking forward to see more photos, let us know once you get her home.

Cheers

[HaydnW92]

Welcome back Haydn! Good to have you back in the club.

I did follow your thread on your former Q4, indeed that's what happens with those Alfas, you sell them same way as you buy them - on an impulse.

Glad to hear you're recovering and congrats on the purchase, she's a stunner! Definitely looking forward to see more photos, let us know once you get her home.

Cheers

Thank you! More photos and information coming soon.

The 164 is addictive - welcome back

More photos of course! And an update on the Maserati is also of interest...

It certainly seems to be, because here I am again!

The Maserati... it was back on the road, and I got to drive it a few times, but it just isn't right. There is a turbo issue, a steering issue, and a few electrical gremlins to sort. I have barely touched the car this year, but plans are in place to spend some time/money on it next year.

I know that's not a lot of information, but I'll be able to provide more once I make some more progress with it.

[obenhaus]

Hi Haydn,

congratulation!

Just noticed the auction of this QV, seems to be a good one.

Nils

[MikeCZ]

Welcome back! I heard from more sources that

I hope you will have more happy moments with this one than with the Q4

[164EVER]

Yes the 164 is addictive
Wow your Q2 seems magnificent.
I have the same addict, just buy another one today

[HaydnW92]

Welcome back! I heard from more sources that

3fsvnr.jpg

I hope you will have more happy moments with this one than with the Q4

Thanks, I hope so too - and I'm sure I will

Hi Haydn,

congratulation!

Just noticed the auction of this QV, seems to be a good one.

Nils

Thanks Nils. It's fairly low mileage for a 164 and has been looked after well according to the paperwork, so hopefully there won't be any nasty surprises when I start working on it. The interior is in good condition too which is nice. I haven't had a clear look at the underside yet, but from what I have seen so far, it looks nice and clean under there. Fingers crossed.

Yes the 164 is addictive
Wow your Q2 seems magnificent.
I have the same addict, just buy another one today

You know how I feel then I can't wait to get back on the road with this car!

[HaydnW92]

I've had the car in my possession for 1 and a half weeks now. Even though it doesn't run or drive, it's still nice to have a 164 again
Last Sunday, I gave the car its first clay bar and polish treatment. The weather wasn't great so I had to rush a bit, and I didn't have time to do the interior. I will probably buy an orbital/rotary polisher in the future as there are quite a few scratches here and there that I should be able to get rid of. I started to use some metal polish on the wheels too - they are not the standard finish, they seem to have been refurbished with a polished metal effect in the past. They look 'dull' at the moment but with lots of polishing, they should come up really nice You can hopefully see the difference between the area I polished, and the area I left alone.

[HaydnW92]

Th car also came with a large amount of spares, including some rare and very useful parts. I couldn't believe how much was included! The yellow item in the picture that shows the rear seats, is a fully refurbished rear subframe. There's a clutch kit, an exhaust rear section, headlights, brake parts including brand new discs, wing mirrors, various interior trims, ignition coil packs, an Autodelta engine chip, a crankshaft, a driveshaft, rear suspension arms, some polybushes... the list goes on! I could build another 164 with the spare parts I have!

[finalfa]

Beautiful 164 you've got your hands on! Will definitely follow this thread. And remember to post a lot of pictures!
You got very lucky with getting a lot of spares, as the supply surely is drying up for 164:s. Sounds like you made a great deal.

[Alfan]

It does look good and with all the spares it looks like you have made a good purchase

Any idea why the car is not starting?

You write that it is from 1996, how can that be?

[HaydnW92]

It does look good and with all the spares it looks like you have made a good purchase

Any idea why the car is not starting?

You write that it is from 1996, how can that be?

Yeah it seems like I have, for othe first time
I haven't tried to start the car yet. It has been in dry storage for 8 years, so the cambelt is at least twice overdue to be replaced. But I don't see why it won't run when I've finished the cambelt service.

164s were sold here in the UK until 1997. Was it different in Denmark?

Beautiful 164 you've got your hands on! Will definitely follow this thread. And remember to post a lot of pictures!
You got very lucky with getting a lot of spares, as the supply surely is drying up for 164:s. Sounds like you made a great deal.

Thank you! I'm really pleased with the overall purchase (including the spares). It's very handy to have so many spare parts. Of course I will update the thread with pictures!

So, I've done a small amount of work on the 164. I've reached the point where I'm ready to replace the cambelt, and the belt, tensioner pulley, idler bearings, cambelt tensioner, waterpump and thermostat are on their way. Prices seem to have increased a bit since I last serviced a 24v 164, but that's to be expected I guess. I managed to buy the cambelt tensioner for £100 on ebay, supposedly brand new in box, so if it's genuine then I'll be really pleased. It's the Ferrari part, 157356.

Other parts to replace include the following:
- Auxiliary/serpentine belt
- " " tensioner
- " " Idler bearings
- " " tensioner bearing
- Outer CV boots (probably the inner ones too)
- Tyres (they're in great condition with lots of tread, but they're 16 years old )
- Air filter
- Oil filter
- Fuel filter
- All fluids
- Rear springs, dust boots and bump stops
- Fuel rail rubber hoses and clamps (the hoses look a bit old, + the clamps are not fuel hose clamps and are 'squeezing' the hoses slightly...)

Plus various other parts of course. It really all depends on what I find as I work on the car. Hopefully there won't be much more to replace, as it seems to be in really nice condition overall.

I've taken the front right wheel off of course, so I can replace the cambelt. I decided I would polish it up while it was removed from the car. There are pictures of before, and after (in the wrong order, but you guys can work it out!).

These wheels have previously been refurbished to a polished metal finish, and the bolts have been removed and replaced with proper threaded bolts (which can be removed, and then screwed back in). This will be very useful in the future, in terms of keeping the wheels looking good

[HaydnW92]

More pictures...

[HaydnW92]

It's in pretty good condition really.

[HaydnW92]

I was really pleased with how the wheel and the chrome intake runners look after lots of polishing!

I've been thinking about some long-term plans for the car too. I usually end up buying Zender Milanos for my 164s but I really like the original Speedlines in this polished metal finish, so I think I'll keep them for now. Recaro seats perhaps? If a good set comes up and I have some cash spare for them. I also usually fit a rear wing/spoiler, either a Zender one or the original (optional) one. I think it completes the look of the Cloverleaf 164s. But I'm not sure with this car, it's nice and clean and shiny as it is so I might not bother.

I wish I had kept my Zender Alfa Sport stainless steel sill plates though. They were really nice... Maybe some more will come up for sale in the future. Yeah... unlikely!

[finalfa]

Excellent work on the rims. Hoping to that to one of my speedline sets in the near future. I'm just lazy. Do you have any tips and tricks regarding polishing the rims? I'm guessing a lot of paint stripper to start with.
And good work on getting the timing belt done. And please tell how the ferrari tensioner seems. I am myself coming closer and closer to doing a complete timing belt job on my Q4...

[HaydnW92]

Thanks, although all I have done is polish them up a bit - the previous owner had the wheels refinished like this, several years ago. The polished finish had gone dull over time, so all I'm doing at the moment is bringing them back to how they should look.

Having said that, I do have experience of refurbishing a set of wheels to a metal polished finish myself. I've only done it once, and it was trial and error really. I did this with a set of Zender Milanos. It was A LOT of work though - I estimate each wheel took me around 30 hours to finish, but somebody with more experience and better tools could probably do it much faster.

These are the steps I took:

1. Remove all the decorative bolts. Expect them to break as they're only made of plastic - many of mine did, but you can replace them with aftermarket ones anyway.
2. Strip the wheels with paint stripper.
3. Lots and lots of wet sanding with different grades of sandpaper. This took me a long time. Starting with more coarse stuff, and working your way up to stuff like 2500 grit.
4. Being metal polishing. I bought a kit that you can use with a powerdrill. It came with various different drill 'heads' and a few different grades of polishing compound.
5. When you're satisfied with the finish, use some wheel sealant (I used Poorboy's) to help repel dirt and corrosion.

That's what I did anyway, and my wheels looked pretty good afterwards. Doubtless other people will have different methods that may work better. I'll repeat though - it's a lot of work, but worth it!

Here is a picture of them when I first bought them:

[HaydnW92]

And here are some pictures of my old Q4 with the finished wheels fitted.

[Alfan]

It does look good and with all the spares it looks like you have made a good purchase

Any idea why the car is not starting?

You write that it is from 1996, how can that be?

Yeah it seems like I have, for othe first time
I haven't tried to start the car yet. It has been in dry storage for 8 years, so the cambelt is at least twice overdue to be replaced. But I don't see why it won't run when I've finished the cambelt service.

164s were sold here in the UK until 1997. Was it different in Denmark?

Just curious, as the 24V Q (or QV) was the predecessor to the Q4, which came late 93, early 94 (mine is from May 94). But as I have found with the Thema 8.32, some cars were standing at the dealer ships for a long time, before 1st registration, so yours is probably one of those.

164s were manufactured until 1997 (and sold after that, saw a new TS at a dealership in Italy in 1998), so no difference there.

[HaydnW92]

I believe the 24v QV and Q4 were built alongside one another throughout the same period, with the 24v Qv launched in 1993 and the Q4 following shortly after. I'm certain the Q4 didn't 'replace' the Qv in terms of production, as otherwise the Qv would have been in production for less than a year. Though perhaps I've misunderstood your post?
Unfortunately I can't seem to get Fiat Eper to work properly this evening so I can't find an exact build date for my car, but according to the information in the thread below, my VIN (ZAR16400006326490) indicates the car was built sometime in 1996, which makes sense as it was first registered in May 1996. It also has some features I've not seen on earlier models - neither my 1994 Q4 or my Dad's old 1994 Qv had an EGR valve but my 1996 does. I think the EGR appeared on cars built from 1995 onwards?

https://www.alfabb.com/threads/ar-164-p ... tc.152287/

[HaydnW92]

Finalfa - I also forgot to mention about the Ferrari tensioner. It's identical to the Alfa part, but often cheaper. I used one on my old Q4 when I carried out the full engine service and had no problems with it. I bought it from Eurospares here in the UK (Maserati/Ferrari/Lamborghini specialist) but they no longer seem to hold stock of them, at least according to their website.

Also, Alfan - I will have to own an 8.32 one day. They tick all of my boxes; Italian, quirky, rare, nice engine, nice interior, and cool as ice!!

[Alfan]

I believe the 24v QV and Q4 were built alongside one another throughout the same period, with the 24v Qv launched in 1993 and the Q4 following shortly after. I'm certain the Q4 didn't 'replace' the Qv in terms of production, as otherwise the Qv would have been in production for less than a year. Though perhaps I've misunderstood your post?
Unfortunately I can't seem to get Fiat Eper to work properly this evening so I can't find an exact build date for my car, but according to the information in the thread below, my VIN (ZAR16400006326490) indicates the car was built sometime in 1996, which makes sense as it was first registered in May 1996. It also has some features I've not seen on earlier models - neither my 1994 Q4 or my Dad's old 1994 Qv had an EGR valve but my 1996 does. I think the EGR appeared on cars built from 1995 onwards?

https://www.alfabb.com/threads/ar-164-p ... tc.152287/

Well, I cannot say that I have specific details on this, but the 230BHP FWD version is not mentioned in the PR material after the Q4 is introduced and the production numbers I have heard of, are lower than the Q4. But being Italians you can never be sure of what they did

Regarding the 8.32 I can only recommend it - for at least some of the things you mention and it being a 'Q car'

[Giri]

This is what I found on Compact 98. It looks like the QV 24V was built only for the UK and perhaps other RHD markets alongside the LHD Q4. Most likely their calculations indicated that a RHD version of the Q4 would not have been feasible financially. AFAIK the same thing is happening with the Giulia - no RHD Q4 versions.

[MikeCZ]

So, Hayden, did you manage to buy those Zender Milano wheels for ridiculous price? I saw you commented on FB 164 group about them (at list I think i was you ) I would opt for them too, but my wife was not to happy about that idea