Fuel pump not working

For the technical things.
Post Reply
fred0664
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:25 am

Fuel pump not working

Post by fred0664 »

Hi there
I have a problem with my Alfa 164 3l v6 24v
fuel pump not working :(
I checked the pump it works I also checked the relay next to the radiator ok
I changed the engine speed sensor still nothing :(
Do you have an idea ? :D
User avatar
Alfan
Q4 owner
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by Alfan »

Welcome to the site :)

So you are not getting fuel to the engine? Fuel filter blocked? Fuel pressure regulator? Is fuel pressure high enough?
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo R
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Comp
2021 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Anodized Blu
1980 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Blindata Bianco
2003 Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Grigio
fred0664
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:25 am

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by fred0664 »

Alfan wrote: โ†‘
Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:46 am
Welcome to the site :)

So you are not getting fuel to the engine? Fuel filter blocked? Fuel pressure regulator? Is fuel pressure high enough?
ignition ok I run the starter the engine is running the high pressure pump does not operate
User avatar
Alfan
Q4 owner
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by Alfan »

I am not sure if the fuel pump works in your car or not, since you write this:

"
...fuel pump not working :(
I checked the pump it works...
"

What are you referring to with 'the high pressure pump'?
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo R
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Comp
2021 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Anodized Blu
1980 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Blindata Bianco
2003 Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Grigio
fred0664
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:25 am

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by fred0664 »

Alfan wrote: โ†‘
Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:10 pm
I am not sure if the fuel pump works in your car or not, since you write this:

"
...fuel pump not working :(
I checked the pump it works...
"

What are you referring to with 'the high pressure pump'?
I disassembled the pump with live test on the battery
it works
on the car it does not work
User avatar
Alfan
Q4 owner
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by Alfan »

Ok, so what if you supply 12V directly to the pump, when it is placed in the car? If that works you should look at the wires supplying the pump,since you write that the relay is ok. Are you absolutely sure that the relay is ok?

The pump should run for about 2 seconds when ignition is turned on, so it should also be possible to measure voltage at the plug at that time to see if it changes.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo R
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Comp
2021 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Anodized Blu
1980 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Blindata Bianco
2003 Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Grigio
fred0664
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:25 am

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by fred0664 »

how many sensors on motor 1 or 2

there is an engine speed sensor

does it have a PMH sensor?
User avatar
Alfan
Q4 owner
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by Alfan »

For the fuel pump I think there is only the relay directly to the pump, running shortly with ignition on (controlled by the engine ECU) and then on constantly when the engine is started. This is the plug for the pump you need to measure, does it provide 12V or not.

So firstly you need to find out, if the pump runs shortly with ignition on. If it does, then it is supplied. When trying to start the engine, no fuel is getting to the engine, you might have a blocked fuel filter.

If the engine ECU does not recognize RPM over a specific value (maybe 400RPM), it will not supply power to the fuel pump.

My Q4 is slightly different to the FWD 164's, so there might be some differences, but that is the overall principles. This site has workshop manuals for most of the 164 versions, so I recommend to download these and look more into the details ๐Ÿ˜Š

Is this a new car you have bought or has it just started giving problems for you now?
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo R
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Comp
2021 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Anodized Blu
1980 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Blindata Bianco
2003 Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Grigio
fred0664
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:25 am

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by fred0664 »

Image
Image

Image
Image
fred0664
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:25 am

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by fred0664 »

Alfan wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:30 pm
For the fuel pump I think there is only the relay directly to the pump, running shortly with ignition on (controlled by the engine ECU) and then on constantly when the engine is started. This is the plug for the pump you need to measure, does it provide 12V or not.

So firstly you need to find out, if the pump runs shortly with ignition on. If it does, then it is supplied. When trying to start the engine, no fuel is getting to the engine, you might have a blocked fuel filter.

If the engine ECU does not recognize RPM over a specific value (maybe 400RPM), it will not supply power to the fuel pump.

My Q4 is slightly different to the FWD 164's, so there might be some differences, but that is the overall principles. This site has workshop manuals for most of the 164 versions, so I recommend to download these and look more into the details ๐Ÿ˜Š

Is this a new car you have bought or has it just started giving problems for you now?
I buy them in 2014 400โ‚ฌ
I repaired clutch master cylinder
fuel hose
the candles
water pump, drain all filters
timing belt it had 134000km
have driven it for 1 year 142,000 km
then the driver's door handle broke, not finding a handle, the car was no longer used
stored away since
then one day I wanted to start it, the fuel hose broke, I repaired the hose and it was impossible to start the pump, which no longer works.
I have several projects in court so no time to take care of them
last week I wanted to take care of it and restore it
User avatar
Alfan
Q4 owner
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by Alfan »

A project car - but a nice one ๐Ÿ‘

I think you need to go through the electrical plugs and ground cables - also clean the pins on the relays and fuses and their sockets, as they might look ok, but corrosion is blocking connection.

If you can make a video of what is happening, that could also be helpful. Pictures can say a lot more than words when describing something...
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo R
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Comp
2021 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Anodized Blu
1980 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Blindata Bianco
2003 Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Grigio
fred0664
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:25 am

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by fred0664 »

I will also check if there is ignition
because if there is no ignition, the pump does not start?
fred0664
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:25 am

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by fred0664 »

Alfan wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:48 pm
A project car - but a nice one ๐Ÿ‘

I think you need to go through the electrical plugs and ground cables - also clean the pins on the relays and fuses and their sockets, as they might look ok, but corrosion is blocking connection.

If you can make a video of what is happening, that could also be helpful. Pictures can say a lot more than words when describing something...
thank you i check all that
fred0664
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:25 am

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by fred0664 »

i just finished a 1964 mustang
User avatar
Alfan
Q4 owner
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by Alfan »

fred0664 wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:49 pm
I will also check if there is ignition
because if there is no ignition, the pump does not start?
Ignition is needed for the pump to run (for a few seconds). And when starting I think it requires that the ECU gets the correct signal, in order to activate the fuel pump - if that does not happen, no fuel is supplied. If applying 12V directly to the pump, fuel should go to the engine, but if the ECU will 'accept' this to start the engine, I am not sure of.

Anyway, going through relays and fuses, I think is essential here!
Last edited by Alfan on Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo R
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Comp
2021 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Anodized Blu
1980 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Blindata Bianco
2003 Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Grigio
User avatar
Alfan
Q4 owner
Posts: 1315
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by Alfan »

fred0664 wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:53 pm
i just finished a 1964 mustang
Nice 8)
1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 Proteo R
1989 Lancia Thema 8.32 Verde Indy
2001 Alfa Romeo Spider 3.0 24V Blue Lightning
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Rosso Comp
2021 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Anodized Blu
1980 Alfa Romeo Alfetta Blindata Bianco
2003 Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Grigio
User avatar
wilco
3.0 V6 24V owner
Posts: 764
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 pm

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by wilco »

so the relay is clicking when turning on ignation ?
if yes,
is the fuse in the relay side ok ?
Is there 12v ?
If yes, check voltage on the connector on the top of the fuel tank. should be 12v there too.
If so, pump might have died.
Henry Ford, 1939: "Every time I see an Alfa Romeo pass by, I lift my hat."
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V Q4--
--Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24V--
164EVER
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:42 am
Location: france, allier

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by 164EVER »

Hello Fred.
Is there an anti-theft disposal on the Super ?
Because this could be a :evil: :evil: :evil:
164 3.0 V6 1988 330000KM
164 2.0 TS 1989 243000KM
164 SUPER 2.5 TD 1993 308000KM
156 1.8 TS 2001 165000KM.
EX : 33 SW 1.5, 1.3 ie, 1.5 ie, 33 1.7 QV 16V, GIULIETTA 116 1.6, ALFA 6 2.5 (X3), 146 boxer 1.6 , 164 SUPER 2.0 TS.
fred0664
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:25 am

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by fred0664 »

164EVER wrote: โ†‘
Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:55 pm
Hello Fred.
Is there an anti-theft disposal on the Super ?
Because this could be a :evil: :evil: :evil:
Hello I thought about this problem I cut the alarm with the key

When the alarm is on, it is impossible to operate the starter

I disconnect the alarm and then the starter starts

Question does the alarm cut off the computer?

This is trw sipea alarm 2447
it cuts the starter yes, on the other hand for the computer I do not know
I disassembled the computer and I would like to find the connection diagram of the computer ๐Ÿ™‚

Motronic Bosch 0261200663

I looked on the available docs, I'm French and therefore I can't find the right diagram.

Could you help me find it?

I would like to check if the most contact and the most batherie and the mass
and be able to carry out all the checks
I also tried to connect multi ecu failure
I tried with Alfa 164diag also failure
I'm really afraid that it's the computer that is out of order


Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
fred0664
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:25 am

Re: Fuel pump not working

Post by fred0664 »

Post Reply